are Ticket Inspectors breaking the law ?

lgb2100

Notice on the Facebook page of the Tyne and Wear Metro system the following post.....


"the biggest problem facing metro ticket inspectors, is that they are abusive and breaking the law.

It is the legal requirement in this country that the only people you are obliged to give your personal details to upon request are the Police force - Not metro ticket inspectors and not British Transport Police. It is against the law for metro to detain you. Metro staff are not allowed to block your path, this is called illegal detention and imprisonment. Metro staff are not allowed to touch you, this is called Assault. The only time they can touch a person is the same legal right to self defence anyone else has.

The police also are not allowed to pass your personal information on in order to issue a fine on behalf of nexus, which use a private company for processing these fines. This is in breach of the data protection act, among many other laws - If someone broke into my home, the police wouldn't divulge the suspects information so that i could deal with them myself.

Metro staff can also be seen at stations when they are checking tickets, but they only ever check the tickets of people leaving their premises. This is bordering on entrapment as they are physically allowing a person to either commit a crime, or make an honest mistake of not purchasing a ticket, and is in actual contravention on the purpose of having ticket inspectors for "Revenue Protection" - If it was about protection, they would need only 2 members of staff at each station checking tickets as people were entering the premises, instead of 20 people trying to catch evasion and issue fixed penalty fares, and this would stamp out evasion."

How much of this is true ?

I've been requested to see my travel pass on occasions, (when fed up with the disruption of the service - I have it on my phone - ready to send off in order to secure a refund(, I've shown this instead of my 'Hard copy' travel pass - only to be met with rude remarks, demanding to see the 'Hard Copy' - I only show it, if they say PLEASE - but isn't the copy on my phone acceptable ?

(refunds ask for a scan copy, rather than the 'Hard Copy')

For the past six months (maybe longer), the service has been so poor - daily train failure, low stock, not enough drivers, etc.... - are they in breach of contract with the ticket holder ?

We the Ticket holder, purchase the ticket believing that the service is running as per timetable, safe and reliable ?

wealdroam

You ask how much of this is true.

I'll only bother with your first point:

lgb2100 wrote: »

It is the legal requirement in this country that the only people you are obliged to give your personal details to upon request are the Police force - Not metro ticket inspectors and not British Transport Police.

You do know do you that the British Transport Police are a bone fide police force?

As such, of course they have the same rights and powers as any other police force in this respect.

I'll let someone else deal with the rest.

geordie_taxi

An interesting post lgb2100 and i'll try my best to explain with some bullet points, but what wealdrom said is correct the BTP have the same powers as normal police ie arrest, detain and questioning about offences.

As to the rest;
metro ticket inspectors - only have two legal rights, one is your correct name and address. The other is to use responsible force to detain you if you don't give a valid answer to the above, but as this can be seen as assault and also the fact that train company management normally sack their employees who get physical with passengers most will refrain from laying a finger on anyone.

Any other metro ticket inspector's questions you answer will be a bonus to them and used against you, their well trained in asking leading questions which are designed to work in their favour.

The police also are not allowed to pass your personal information on in order to issue a fine on behalf of nexus - the police don't need to and wouldn't get involved anyway, but then again you have given Nexus your personal info already via the metro ticket inspectors legally, see above - metro ticket inspectors legal rights.

This is bordering on entrapment yes but refusing to let offenders travel means you can't fine them, which means profits for the share holders will suffer.

The railway has a lot of draconian bylaws designed in Victorian times which haven't been modernised, these bylaws give the train companies a biased approach which can easily be exploited to extract monies out of unsuspecting passengers again to increase profits.

You need to be a lawyer or have lots of money to pay expensive lawyers to challenge these bylaws but people are now wising up to these bully boys, see here https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4787281

I've shown this instead of my 'Hard copy' travel pass - only to be met with rude remarks, demanding to see the 'Hard Copy' - Next time get your mobile phone out and film all contact, then upload to utube, send the weblink to Nexus customer services with a letter of complaint.

lgb2100

Many thanks for the responses.

I for one always have a valid pass, so shouldnt have any problems unless ive lost my pass, but always have a scanned copy - so should be enough avoid a fine.

Any views on breach of contract, due to metro having insufficent service ?

Marco_Panettone

lgb2100 wrote: »

Many thanks for the responses.

I for one always have a valid pass, so shouldnt have any problems unless ive lost my pass, but always have a scanned copy - so should be enough avoid a fine.

Any views on breach of contract, due to metro having insufficent service ?

How many other people could have scanned the same valid pass onto their phone to use? This is why hard copies are usually the only ones accepted.

Be polite, show your valid pass when requested and life will continue without hassle.

lgb2100

Marco_Panettone wrote: »

How many other people could have scanned the same valid pass onto their phone to use? This is why hard copies are usually the only ones accepted.

Be polite, show your valid pass when requested and life will continue without hassle.

ticket portion of pass has six digit unique number - and photo portion has same six digit unique number.

Digital copy is accepted for refunds.

I'm always polite when showing it - it's the inspectors who aren't always polite when requesting.

geordie_taxi

lgb2100 wrote: »

I'm always polite when showing it - it's the inspectors who aren't always polite when requesting.

What like this you mean?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=6XDkkLHHP0M#t=21

*Bad language warning, both on the video and comments

Stigy

lgb2100 wrote: »

Notice on the Facebook page of the Tyne and Wear Metro system the following post.....


"the biggest problem facing metro ticket inspectors, is that they are abusive and breaking the law.

It is the legal requirement in this country that the only people you are obliged to give your personal details to upon request are the Police force - Not metro ticket inspectors and not British Transport Police. It is against the law for metro to detain you. Metro staff are not allowed to block your path, this is called illegal detention and imprisonment. Metro staff are not allowed to touch you, this is called Assault. The only time they can touch a person is the same legal right to self defence anyone else has.

The police also are not allowed to pass your personal information on in order to issue a fine on behalf of nexus, which use a private company for processing these fines. This is in breach of the data protection act, among many other laws - If someone broke into my home, the police wouldn't divulge the suspects information so that i could deal

Railway staff can detain somebody that refuses to supply their name and address after having failed to buy a ticket. This is permitted under s5(2) Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Not sure who posted this on their site, but does sound a bit like a law student to me....

Regarding entrapment....all I can say on that is somebody needs to look up the definition of the term. You can't use entrapment as an excuse for 'palming off' one's law breaking actions. Words really do fail me sometimes.

geordie_taxi

Stigy wrote: »

Railway staff can detain somebody that refuses to supply their name and address after having failed to buy a ticket. This is permitted under s5(2) Regulation of Railways Act 1889. Not sure who posted this on their site, but does sound a bit like a law student to me....

Like in the video below, there is a fine line between detain and assault especially if carried out by somebody whose poorly trained. In fact I'm sure I've read on a foamers forum that management sack staff that get physical with passengers due to the bad corporate image it displays.

hence why the mobile phone camera is the best defence against these bully boys.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIk2REU3vdg

Jeff_Bridges_hair

lgb2100 wrote: »

I've been requested to see my travel pass on occasions, (when fed up with the disruption of the service - I have it on my phone - ready to send off in order to secure a refund(, I've shown this instead of my 'Hard copy' travel pass - only to be met with rude remarks, demanding to see the 'Hard Copy' - I only show it, if they say PLEASE - but isn't the copy on my phone acceptable ?

No, the medium of having a copy of your ticket on your phone is not acceptable on the T&W Metro or most other places unless they are specific E-Tickets on some railways.

You are required to produce, upon request a valid ticket for your journey, failure to do so could lead you to be subjected to a penalty fare or a prosecution under the relevant bylaws.

This whole entrapment stuff is pure rubbish and I would suggest you tell whoever it is on whatever FB page it is that by spreading such lies could get a lot of people in a lot of trouble.

geordie_taxi

Jeff_Bridges_hair wrote: »

whatever FB page it is that by spreading such lies could get a lot of people in a lot of trouble.

I'll help you out Jeff, maybe it's on this facebook page*

https://en-gb.facebook.com/CheckyWatch

*Bad language warning