Balanced Flue & Power Flue fires

sooty&sweep

We don't have a chimney so we've been looking at balanced flue & power flue fires.
I believe the efficiency levels on power flues aren't good so we'd chosen a balanced flue.
A gas engineer came out on monday night to do a site visit & apparently we can't have the balanced flue fire we chosen because where the flue would be is too close to a corner.
I've done a little digging around on the internet and everywhere I look it indicates a minimum distance of 600mm whereas we have approx 350mm.
I'm now looking around for a high effiency power flue but they all seem to be 50 - 60% so not that keen with gas prices continually going up.

I've been looking to see if we could install an external flue/chimney.

Is it possible to have a bend in the flue to a balanced flue fire ? The gas engineer says no only in power flues but anyone know of examples ?

Anybody any suggestions or advice ?

Thanks

Jen

rustyboy21

No. You cannot have a bend in a normal inset balanced flue fire, I am afraid. They normally come with a 600mm length of flue pipe, which includes the flue terminal and must go STRAIGHT out the back of the fire.

You can buy balanced flue fires, which can do a number of bends, but these are the very large landscape balanced flue products, but will cost you in excess of £2k+ to buy. You would also need to build a false chimney breast to fit them in your room. Companies like Faber, Dru, Bell barbas are this type of product. Fantastic, but not cheap.

If you look at Power flue fires, yes you are correct that the efficiency is a lot lower. This is due to them being open fronted and the there is also the chance that you will end up with a breeze coming back into your room, from the fan unit on the outside wall.

If you go down the road of a power flue fire, then you must make sure it is , what is known as a 'Side venting power flue ' A normal power flue will be the same problem as a balanced flue. You will also need to build a false chimney breast in your room with one of these.

DON'T go down the road of buying a Flueless fire. You will Live (if you are lucky! ) to regret it.

You really need the help of a good reputable fireplace retailer in your town, who can help you get the right product. It is not something you can really afford to mess up with, by ordering online.

rustyboy21

I have just looked at a few installer guides for some bog standard balanced flue fires and a couple of power flue fires.

By the looks of it, you are spot on about BF fires, you need min 600mm at least away from a corner of the property.

I looked at one power flue fire Kinder Nevada PF. It says you can work it with a 200mm gap away from a wall.

One thing about BF fires though, one manufacturer ( Valor) does state that you can fit closer than 600mm if the wall it is close to, is an old external chimney breast. There is no rules in this case, as long as it is no more than 450mm deep.

Hope this helps.

sooty&sweep

Thanks Rustyboy

We've had a powerflue and thats what we need to replace as its not working. To be honest Im not keen to get another one as the fan is quite noisy & with the low efficiency as well.
We're currently considering if we could move the fire along the wall to deal with 600mm issue but Im looking at the stoves because I wonder whether that would be narrower than a traditional fireplace.
I must admit I love the look of the dru but slightly scared by the POA rather than a price as it just mean they are v expensive !

Thanks
Jen

rustyboy21

The POA does mean that, they are expensive ! You are looking at at least £1500+ for a basic style one, then you have to add on all the flue pipe.

It would be better if you can move your fireplace over a smidge as it would solve a lot of problems. You will be looking at around £1k for a balanced flue stove, for a very cheap one. I saw one at the trade exhibition this year that I fell in love with, but it is around £2k+ plus flue pipe. Here it is

http://www.faberfireplaces.co.uk/site/default.asp?land=uk&subject=product&keuze=Gashaarden&categorie=Freestanding&naam=Jelling

It has 3 sides of glass and the flames wrap around the logs, like a proper wood burner. It was hot too.

Balanced flue fires are a bit of a bespoke type product, so I wouldn't suggest buying online. Some internet retailers say buy the fire from us and flue pipe from a local source. But you have to take into account that some fires have exclusive flue pipe, so you cannot buy it everywhere and if you have a certain way you need to go with the flue pipe, it may end up with 12 parts to order with certain types of bends and flue reducers and wall terminals etc. That's why I suggested a local shop to buy from.

I know what you mean about power flues. I haven't sold one in years and would rather sell the customer an electric fire instead, as I know I would get complaints about noise.

If you have an idea what you like, by all means ask me and I will try to guide you in the right direction.

sooty&sweep

I can see why you like that one it is gorgeous !

I think we may try rearranging the furniture tonight to see if we could move the fire place.

Jen

sooty&sweep

Hi

This is probably a stupid question but I presume the higher efficiency of a balanced flue means that it uses less gas to produce an equivalent amount of heat as a less efficient power flue.
However is it possible to quantify how much more gas a power flue would use and thus how much more expensive it is to run ? I do realise that a power flue uses electricity as well for the fan.
Thanks
Jen

rustyboy21

To work out the efficiency of a gas fire, you divide the Heat output ( in kw) by the Gas input in Kw.

e.g 4kw output 6.9kw input = 57.9% efficiency

Balanced flue fires are more efficient, they do actually use less gas than a power flue fire.

Important note though. If you ever have a power cut, you won't be able to have the fire on, as you need electric to run the fan unit. A balanced flue fire doesn't have that issue

That stove I showed the link to would work out

4.6kw output 6.5kw input = 70.7% efficient.

sooty&sweep

Hi
At the moment the fire is fairly central on the long wall in our lounge. I'm concerned if I move it 25cm along it will look lop sided as it won't be central.
Is it possible to install an external flue to act as a chimney ? If so could you point me in the direction ? Any idea how juch it would cost ?
The other idea I'm toying with is a balanced flue stove but moving it along the wall into the corner. I'm seeing lots of images of gas stoves in corners but would it fall foul of having to be 600mm from a corner ?
Jen

rustyboy21

You would need a balanced flue stove, that was capable and available in having some bends in the flue pipe. Something like a Faber stove would be ok.

There is one fire you can get, which is a bit unique, as it is designed to fit into a corner. It is not cheap, and it is a faber one, called solution. It is triangular in shape. Look on their website for details.

A stove doesn't really look odd when it is not central, unlike a fireplace, but saying that, the majority of fireplaces in peoples houses are not central. One alcove is wider than the other. You fit your furniture around it as it is the focal point of the room.

Anything to do with balanced flue, or power flue isn't going to work out cheap. The cheapest fire you could get would work out around £600. A stove would run at £1400 + flue pipe at least