Downstairs toilet nightmare - please help!

Silvester

Hi all,

Me and my partner are currently part way through having some building work done on our property.

On the side of our house is a large 2 story extension. On the ground floor there was the living room at the front and the kitchen at the back. In the extension side is a utility room at the front, then a tiny dinning room behind that. Between the kitchen and the dinning room was a tiny toilet which we barely used because of how small it was.

Our plan and what we have started to do is remove the downstairs toilet and have an L shape kitchen in the corner of what was the dinning room. Then have a nice open dinning room where the kitchen was originally. We started our work unaware of there being any kind of building regulations relating to the removal of downstairs toilets. This wasn't something our builder even knew about.

The first time we became aware of the building regulations relating to downstairs toilets was when we had an inspector out shortly into the work to assess what we was doing (first visit). On this visit the inspector told our builder that there would be issue with the toilet being removed if it was the original toilet. As such, we spoke to the previous owner and checked the plans from when the extension was put up (about 2003 I think) and there was no toilet there on the plans, it had been put in since the extension was put in place.

So, we have continued with our work, put in an RSJ and had the inspector out again to inspect the work. This time a different inspector has assessed the work and said that a replacement toilet needs to be installed somewhere before he will sign off the work. Which is a bit awkward, because we don't really have anywhere we can put a downstairs toilet now. The builder has suggested using a small pantry, however its literally a cupboard and is even smaller than the original toilet we had. Also, unfortunately we didn't have anything in writing from the council about being able to take it out if it wasn't the original toilet.

Now, I'm not going to entirely blame the council. We should have done more research before, however we was not aware of it and neither was our builder, so we thought nothing of it. I do however feel it is a bit unfair if we are forced to find somewhere for a downstairs loo when the initial inspector said it wouldn't be a problem. Especially seeing as this is our first house together, we are only a young couple and don't have a huge amount of money.

If you read up on the regulations - see: http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/br/BR_PDF_ADM_2004.pdf

The reason for these regulations seem to be in order to make it easier for disabled people, however the toilet we had before we so small that we both struggled to use it and we are able bodied. Also, if you was to install a toilet now and wanted it passing off by building regulations, you would need a window and an extractor fan, this toilet had neither.

We are going to try and speak to the council today to confirm what the exact rules are and if they simply say we need a toilet, we are going to see if there is an appeals process, but I wondered if anyone else had come across a similar issue and if anyone was aware of any exclusions.

Thanks for reading and any feedback is appreciated.

macman

Removing a second toiler could well diminish the value of the property, assuming that there is now only one toilet upstairs.

southcoastrgi

See what BC insist you do, but yes I agree with mm I think it was a silly thing to do, most people want a house with a 2nd wc however small (it's functionial so it doesn't have to be the size of buck house), also they may now want one as per the regs ie disabled use so your once tiny cloaks may end up being twice the size

27col

I, for one, would never buy a house with only one toilet. Unless I was going to add another one myself.

phoebe1989seb

27col wrote: »

I, for one, would never buy a house with only one toilet. Unless I was going to add another one myself.

Me neither......it seems like a backward step and maybe because I still remember my grandparents' house that only had a downstairs loo and which always seemed very old-fashioned to me, we always go a bit obsessive over the number of loos in our houses, lol!

Our last-but-one house - which was admittedly quite a large 6 bedroom place - had four loos and by the time we've finished this house it too will have four, mainly because we've added an en-suite and decided to not only fit a loo in our new extension, but also retain the one in an annexe built by a previous owner (although we've re-sited the actual bathroom) in order to make the downstairs layout more appealing when we sell.

That said, our other d/s loo is actually in the utility room along with the boiler, washing machine and a butler sink unit........not ideal, but useful if you're working in the garden and need the loo but don't want to traipse through the house with muddy boots etc and it is well away from the food prep/cooking/eating end of the kitchen

OP, is there any chance you could re-site a loo in your utility room, assuming you're retaining this space?

phoebe1989seb

Duplicate post deleted!

I_have_spoken

SOunds like No.2 is a jobsworth who doesn't know the rules.

Why not just place a WC pan and macerater in the middle of the new kitchen, get your certificate, then remove it?

teneighty

I am a bit confused.

Was the toilet accommodation situated in the original house or the extension?

When was the house built? Before or after 2004?

plumb1_2

27col wrote: »

I, for one, would never buy a house with only one toilet. Unless I was going to add another one myself.

You wanna come up north, and walk down our backyard in the middle of the night for a Poo:D

Silvester

The removal of the downstairs toilet would have left us with just one toilet upstairs. It's interesting to see that so many people wouldn't view a house without a downstairs toilet, regardless of the size.

It's not a new house, think it was built in the 60's. From what I've read online all new build properties need to have a downstairs toilet build in. However we was originally told with older houses that it was only an issue if the toilet was the original downstairs toilet. The toilet was within the main bit of the house, just next to the old external wall, however it wasn't the original toilet. We are now told that you can't take out a downstairs toilet unless you relocate it to somewhere else on the ground floor.

Seeing as the council will not sign off any of the work until we have a downstairs toilet, we have been forced to buy a toilet which will fit in a tiny pantry off the new dinning room. However I have found a genious product which will help! B&Q do a toilet where the sink sits on top of the toilet. If we had a separate toilet & basin it would have been really tight & I had images of walking into it.

Link - http://www.diy.com/nav/rooms/bathrooms/toilets/basin___toilet_packs/Cooke-and-Lewis-Duetto-White-Toilet-and-Basin-12127590

teneighty

From the information you have given I think the Building Control Officer is wrong.

Go over his head and ask his chief to confirm in writing which Building Regulation prohibits the removal of your ground floor WC.

The regulation M4 you quoted before only applies to new build houses built after 2004.