LL giving us a week to move but we've paid arrears

franklee

I do not think that accepting the rent counts as a new contract. However it is possible to create a tenancy verbally and I would say that the landlord giving you open ended permission to remain once the arrears we paid off does create a new tenancy. The problem is how do you prove what the landlord said? It boils down to his word against yours.

Have a read of this blog post and the comments from PainSmith answering questions on creating a new tenancy after the S21 was served:
After a Section 21 Notice Expires
http://blog.painsmith.co.uk/2010/08/23/after-a-section-21-notice-expires/

Extracts:
"measures of only referring to rent as mesne profits after the service of section 21 notice are not necessarily required (although they may be a good idea so as not to confuse busy District Judges!)"

...

"agents should not be overly focused on the section 21 notice and tenants staying on after it has expired and more on making sure they have not offered a new tenancy which might override the notice"

...

"it is possible to invalidate a section 21 when you did not intend to, for example agreeing to extend the occupation for some weeks after the section 21 has expired."

IHMO it's going to come down to if the LL is prepared to lie in court, or claim that you misunderstood and then who the judge believes.

Please do let us know how you get on.

Next time get it in writing or of the LL won't do that you send a letter to him confirming the conversation that you had.

JK28

Thank you so much for your help.I have read through the blog and jotted down some points. I think it will definitely come down to his word against ours. We have actually found another house but its not available until the end of Nov so it may be that we have a month at my mothers which will be hard but doable. If the judge will give us to 6th Nov I'll be happy with that, just be hard to have to pack up by next wed and leave.
I will let you know how it goes tomorrow. Thanks again.

JK28

Hi Franklee,
Well good news for us it was thrown out as the LL didn't bother turning up!! instead he sent an email saying we had agreed to leave next wed the 23rd which of course we didn't agree to.
The judge said that it wasn't a good enough reason for evicting us when he had accepted payment up to the 6th Nov and as far as he was concerned we could stay and the LL would have to give us the proper 2 months notice starting from the 6th Nov.
We are still going to move but at least we have more time to look now.
Thanks for your help

anselld

Be careful when you do find somewhere, because by the same logic *you* will have to serve notice correctly in order to leave.

jamie11

Just to be a little pedantic. Your tenancy would not have ended on the 'court possession date'. It would have ended when the bailiff arrived to put you out. Until then rent would have been payable.

Still all's well that ends well.

franklee

JK28 wrote: »

Hi Franklee,
Well good news for us it was thrown out as the LL didn't bother turning up!! instead he sent an email saying we had agreed to leave next wed the 23rd which of course we didn't agree to.
The judge said that it wasn't a good enough reason for evicting us when he had accepted payment up to the 6th Nov and as far as he was concerned we could stay and the LL would have to give us the proper 2 months notice starting from the 6th Nov.
We are still going to move but at least we have more time to look now.
Thanks for your help

Thanks for the update, well done! Good to hear you will now have time to look around and hopefully find somewhere that suits you. Odd that the LL didn't show up, perhaps he didn't relish lying in court.

So assuming you are now on a statutory periodic tenancy when you leave you need to serve one whole period's notice that ends at the end of a period. If you pay rent monthly that's a month's notice. If your last fixed term ended on say the 6th then your periods start on the 7st and ends on the 6th of the month. Make sure you serve notice in writing to the address for the service of notices in your tenancy agreement. Suggest you post first class from two different post offices and get proof of posting for both. Don't use recoded delivery as those can be refused. Allow a few working days for postage. If pushed for time perhaps hand deliver and get a receipt on the spot.

Alternatively if you agree a date to surrender the tenancy with the landlord then do get it in writing that he agrees to the tenancy ending on that day and that you will owe rent only to that day.

Also check if your deposit is registered etc.

JK28

thanks,
we have to give 1 month notice and I will hand deliver it as the agents are local to us. so hopefully we'll be moving the beginning of December, with a bit of luck but knowing we have til early January helps.
Thanks for all those that helped with info, much appreciated

BitterAndTwisted

If you're gong to hand-deliver it I would get a written acknowledgment of receipt or take a witness with you. I think that you should also send a copy by first-class post retaining proof-of-posting just to be on the safe side.


You do not want this notice to go unacknowledged or receipt of it denied and end up having to pay yet another month's rent on top of the rent on a new property.

Given how the landlord has behaved to date I would not want to risk that happening.

harrys_dad

What an excellent thread which shows just how supportive people are on here and how good their advice is. Well done OP for seeing this through to court, and for giving us continual updates.

bebewoo

I do hope you find it possible to pay your rent this time.
Your poor landlord must be on tenterhooks... will they leave, will they pay the rent this time..