heatwise - more like unwise

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Hi Cliddy

I'm sorry you haven't been happy with the communications you've received from us.

Although it does take time to update systems, including outside industry bodies like the national database, I think 28 days is somewhat of a worst case scenario. Unless there's a particular discrepancy, I'd expect the updates to be done quicker than that.

No matter how long it takes, though, you won't be charged at the Heatwise prices following the meter exchange. We'll back date the new tariff to the actual day the meter was changed.

Unless you tell us differently, the new tariff will be our standard product. You can change to a different tariff at any time.

However, if you're switching to another supplier, it's probably best to stay on the standard product until the switch goes through. This is because there aren't any cancellation fees or tie-ins with this tariff.

Fully take your point about the shortcomings of our email system. This is something we're aware of and are looking to change in the near future. Sorry, but don't have a date for this as of yet but it is a priority.

Hope this helps. Give me a shout if you need any more info as happy to help.

Malc

Cliddy

Malc,
Thanks for getting back. It's amazing what a quick and practical response can do for a customers attitude. I'm almost converted. I did say almost!
I take on board everything you have said for which thanks. Even acceptance that the email system is dubious.
One more related subject.....
My old heatwise meter was only ever recording on one reading type. All the others remained at 0 or a number that never changed. I would accept this as normal on any other meter.
But surely if it is heatwise they should have been clicking up overnight usage. At the very least the fridge and units on standby?
Added to this I am being charged 2 standing charges, 1 for heatwise and the other for my standard tariff. again isn't this confirmation that I should have be benefiting from an overnight saving cost.
I would confirm I have no storage heaters and that by now I have a new standard meter. So it is water under the bridge but would still appreciate what's been happening.cheers Dave

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Hi Dave

Thought it might help if I gave you a bit of info about how Heatwise works when fully operational.

Heatwise meters were specifically designed for all electric properties with storage heaters. They give 10 hours of cheaper off peak electricity at certain times during each 24 hour period. This is for heating/water heating purposes.

To do this, the Heatwise part of the meter will be wired directly into the heating/water heating circuits at individual properties.

Electricity used for heating/water heating during the set times is recorded on two registers on the meter. As there are no storage heaters at your property, it looks as though there wasn't any usage hitting these registers.

Heatwise also has a boost facility. This gives an extra hour of hot water whenever needed. This is activated by pressing a specific button on the front of the meter.

Electricity used when the boost is activated is recorded on a separate register on the meter. Again, if you weren't using this function, no usage will be recorded.

Heatwise sits alongside a conventional meter. This is either a single rate or two rate Economy 7 meter. As your old Heatwise meter only had 4 registers (the Economy 7 version has 5), I suspect it was a single rate. Here, all usage will be recorded on the one register.

As above, Heatwise metering set ups come in two parts. The conventional meter and a unit that is wired into the heating/water heating circuits. The separate standing charges are for each particular part of the set up.

One covers the conventional meter and the second the Heatwise part.

Hope this gives a bit more insight into Heatwise meters Dave. Give me a shout if you need any more details as will be happy to help.

Malc

Cliddy

Thanks Malc for getting back,
Also thanks for the explanation. Most of it I'm aware of from previous life of having storage heaters.
Any way too much damage has been done now.
I only had the 1 meter, now removed. Having 2 standing charges and not picking up on this myself, I accept as my problem. Eon were never going to ask me why I was paying this amount and only having standard heating!
But the real problem was that despite communicating with you via this forum eon still haven't returned my emails/calls to discuss a solution face to face.
They eventually sent me an email to say my record had been updated. It did look like it had, but when I went in to get a new tariff quote it still rejected me.
I chased again and eventually it has been freed up.
As a result I've been able to get a decent quote from edf!
If somebody like you had contacted me by phone weeks ago I know it could all have been resolved.
Cheers anyway.

Cliddy

Thought it was all over....... EDF have just got back to me saying that EON have rejected the transfer !!! Suitable words can not be used here.
Just beware if you try converting from eon heatwise.
I suggest very careful thought and leave plenty of time for the process, and very good luck !!

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Morning Dave

Just a thought but I'd check if the national database has been updated following the meter exchange. This database (called Ecoes) holds details about the supply of electricity to each address in the UK.

Following a meter exchange, we send details through to them so their records can be updated. They're an independent organisation so I'm not sure how long they're currently taking to update their records.

Every supplier uses this database when taking over a supply. If it still showed details of your old Heatwise meter when EDF applied to take over your account, the application could well have been rejected. This is because Heatwise has two supply numbers (please see post 8 above) and EDF would've needed to apply for both.

We can let you know if the update has been done. Alternatively, you can contact your electricity distributor and they'll tell you. Details of the distributor are on your bills.

If this is the case, ask for the update to be put through and EDF will be able to re-apply for your account.

Usually, the only other reason we'll object to a switch is where there's an outstanding balance on the account. This, though, only refers to balances over 28 days old and where we've sent a demand for payment.

As you said in an earlier post that you've only recently moved in, I suspect it's the database rather than an old balance that has caused the problem. Besides, if it was a balance, we'll have written to you separately about this.

Again, once old balances are cleared or payment arrangements set up, accounts can be re-applied for.

Hope this helps point you in the right direction Dave.

Malc

vishy01234

I feel so sorry for you as I am enduring a similar situation.

I feel duped by the energy companies and did not feel properly informed with regards to the energy situation prior to moving into my existing property.

After living in my 2 bed flat for 4 months, I wake up in the morning to see a £500 bill for 90 days electricity arrive on my doorstep. I couldn't believe my eyes. My flat is not even particularly warm and I was away with all the heaters shut off for nearly a month of those 90 days. When I received my first bill after just moving in, I felt one needed to have a Maths degree to understand it ... 5 meter readings, so many different rates to understand. Utterly ridiculous. But I thought to myself, use energy sensibly and it can't be that bad. I called up EON immediately after moving in to try and switch tariffs but they insisted their standard plan was all they could offer me, so I accepted it and decided to tackle the issue when I had more time. As I said, it's a little double glazed flat ... how high could bills be after moving from a 4 storey Victorian period house with single glazed windows. Never in my worst nightmare did I think it would end up being more expensive. In my old property I was on a standard electricity tariff with Ovo at around 10p/kwh, and gas from nPower. Bills were high, but at least I could shop around, switch tariffs, knew how the tariffs worked, etc. I had some consumer power.

So back to the £500 bill. After receiving it I realised that I had to get to grips with how this ridiculous Heatwise meter works and the mechanics of this tariff. The meter requires 5 readings (3 readings for the Heatwise part that provides "cheap" rates for the heating system and immersion tank, and 2 readings for the Economy 7 part of the meter ... Heatwise provides 3 periods of "cheap" electricity totalling 10 hours for storage heating and hot water ... Economy 7 is hooked up to supply standard appliances, with a 7 hour period of cheap electricity at night time between 1am and 8am for me).

These are my rates:

The current EON tariff (EON Energy / Heatwise Energy Plan 6) rates inc VAT are:
Economy 7 Day - 17p / kwh
Economy 7 Night - 7p / kwh ... (NOTE - this starts at 1am, running to 8am).
Economy 7 daily standing charge - 26p per day
Heatwise Boost - 17.5p / kwh
Heatwise Night / Eve - 8.7p / kwh
Heatwise Afternoon - 8.7p / kwh
Heatwise Daily standing charge - 11.6p per day
NOTE - 2 lots of daily standing charge

After analysing my usage, the major problem is clearly that my day rate of 17p / kwh is absolute extortion. Whilst electricity prices have gone up a lot, basic searching found me economy 7 tariffs with a day rate of 12p inc VAT, night rate of 6p inc VAT, one standing charge of 25p per day. But on the economy 7 part of my heatwise meter, I am being charged 17p inc vat day rate which seems crazy high to me.

No other supplier will take me on with the current meter. But they will take me on if I switch to economy 7. But then i am faced with the problem that my current heating and water immersion relies on a timer built into the heatwise meter to activate it at the cheaper rates. But an economy 7 meter doesn't have this, and neither does the storage heaters or immersion at my flat have individual timers to control when they come on and off. They only have an on and off switch Additionally, economy 7 does not provide cheaper heat during the day, so if I switch over to that system I could be left with a very cold flat in the evening.

In a nutshell, I think it's scandalous that heatwise customers are being abandoned and forgotten about by energy companies. It is not right for us to have no choice to switch to another supplier, and be stuck with paying extortionate prices at the whim of the energy provider.

P.S. I am renting so it seems unreasonable to expect me to pay for changes to a system that should be perfectly fine if only the energy companies would play fair and offer choice on tariffs.

misty_moo wrote: »

I have heatwise in my home. Its a rented house off the council. My bills are crippling me. I'm a single mum working full time with 2 children. We live in a small 2 bed house in a village were gas is not an opinion. My electricity bills are 179 a quarter during mild weather. However in the colder months its sky rockets to nearly 800 a quarter. I have spoken to eon and the council and both say tough pretty much. Now I wouldn't mind if I was melting at this price. However we ate still under two quilts and wrapped up in jumpers dressing grown and under blankets. I turn the input to max at night and 1 output. I change the output to middle when we are home. I can't believe that I can be stuck with this rubbish with nowhere to turn and struggle to pay the bills :mad: I have already used blocks on doors and windows to block the draft. Have 2 sets of thermal curtains on each window and doors. Does anyone have any idea how in gods name I can reduce my bill without freezing mine and my kids butts off???
I'm so depressed about this need help as they just keep raising the price on these tariffs its ridiculous.

Former_E.ON_Company_Representative:_Malc

Hi vishy01234

I've posted quite a bit of stuff about Heatwise meters above. Hope this has been useful.

Just a heads up going forward. We're currently looking at improving metering arrangements for Heatwise customers. This includes looking at the possibility of fitting Smart Meters.

This is an ongoing project with no set time frame at the moment. It's hoped, though, we'll have more information before the end of this year.

On the bill you've received, is it based on actual meter readings rather than estimates? If estimated, let us have up to date readings and we'll be happy to re-bill accurately.

Also, was the previous bill estimated? If it was, it may have been under-estimated and this latest bill is a catch up now we've actual readings.

With the standing charges, on 18 January 14 we removed the second Heatwise standing charge (the one for the off peak heating/water heating). You'll see the second standing charge up to 17 January 14 but not after this time.

There's also a lower standing charge for your Economy 7 meter available for payment with a Monthly Direct Debit.

Another recent change is we've removed the charge for changing Heatwise meters.

Hope this of interest.

Malc

Kid_Icarus

Vishy - it IS possible to get Economy 7 meters which switch your storage heaters on, at the defined E7 switching times (we have one - we live in a flat with storage heaters, electric hot water immersion and E7)

We have a separate consumer unit for our storage heaters and electric immersion heater. There is an *additional* meter tail from the E7 meter which goes to this consumer unit (the neutral from this consumer unit connects to the 'normal' consumer unit neutral via a Hemley connection block next to the meter).

The meter has a 100A contactor/switch inside it which turns on/off at the E7 times, turning the storage heaters on/off. E7 meter has two counters, one for peak rate and one for night rate.

One thing to beware of when switching from Heatwise to E7 is that depending on how your hot water tank is setup, you may find that you run out of hot water.

If your hot water tank only has ONE immersion heater element (usually at the bottom of the tank or sometimes at the top) this will be wired to the 'off-peak' consumer unit and would be switched on/off according to the Heatwise times (5 hours at night, 3 in the afternoon, 2 at night). With Heatwise, this is not a problem as your immersion heater will be switched on in the afternoon to give you a full tank of hot water for use in the evening (and also 'top up' your storage heaters).

However if you rip out the Heatwise meter and replace it with E7, your immersion heater only switches on for 7 hours overnight. So if you've used up all your hot water in the morning (e.g 2 of you have a shower before going to work) you won't get any hot water until the next E7 off-peak period kicks in overnight.

There are a few ways round this problem - some hot water tanks have TWO immersion heater elements, the main off-peak one at the bottom and a smaller, 'boost' immersion heater at the top of the tank. This boost immersion is wired to the normal peak supply and can be switched on to heat the water immediately. The downside is that it uses peak rate power so can be expensive.

This can be why people get expensive power bills with E7 and electric hot water heating - they don't realise that the top immersion is wired to the peak supply and leave it on all the time. What we did to get around this problem was install one of these:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/HOE30.html
Which allows you to boost the hot water tank for 30/60 or 120 mins and automatically turns off the boost immersion heater as we were always forgetting to turn it off.

IF your hot water tank only has 1 immersion heater, then you don't have the ability to 'boost' the tank, I would recommend one of these:
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/HOBX2000.html

We now find our storage heater/electric hot water system works fine (once we learned how best to use it!) and the cost is broadly the same as our friends/family with gas. But with one benefit that everyone forgets with storage heaters - they are almost maintenance free (no pump/boiler/pipework to go wrong!)

Hope that helps

TheOneINT

Similar happened to my Mum