Given UKPC ticket by officer not employed by UKPC?

bazingamo

Hi all,

After following adivce on this forum, I have made a complaint to the high and mighty people who's land I parked on and subsequently received a UKPC ticket, just to occupy my time whilst I wait for the RtK letter.

In their response they put:

"The Traffic Control Officers are University staff, they are not employed by UKPC, UKPC look after the back office administration and will follow up on unpaid fines where necessary on our behalf."


Since I'm no expert, please tell me... if the person is not employed by UKPC surely they cannot ticket my car? I mean....I could just go around putting tickets on people's cars in that case right?!


She also mentioned I would have to complain to them and my complaint would go back to the University appeals team...which seems rather roundabout to me - surely UKPC would just deal with this themselves? (Via the usual lots of threatening letters?!)


Thanks in advance for any advice

spacey2012

They can do what they like, they are scammers.

bazingamo

spacey2012 wrote: »

They can do what they like, they are scammers.

I know....but I still ought to appeal as per the forum reccommendations right?

trisontana

To call them "officers" is taking it a bit too far, when in reality they are just some minimum-wage employee with a hi-viz jacket,

peter_the_piper

Bear in mind that (probably)the uni owns the land and the tickets could have been issued for them.

Folkiedave

I reckon they have a problem myself. Ask under FOI for a copy of the contract that allows them to operate as back office staff.

They'll probably try commercial confidentiality - S43. but in fact it doesn't apply.

Quote this in your letter "
"The Information Tribunal has confirmed that information contained in a contract between a public authority and a third party represents the conclusion of negotiations between the two parties, and as such is jointly created rather than being obtained by the public authority from the contractor. It is therefore not confidential information."

Otherwise do as you are wait for the NTK as you are doing - then soft appeal; hard (winning) appeal.

esmerobbo

Make sure you keep a copy of their response with the word "fine" in it, be hard to argue that its not a penalty if they call it a fine.

Besides UKPC have never done court besides what they quote!

Coupon-mad

Appeal AND complain - but the appeal to UKPC isn't to be sent until the NTK arrives, as you know. Make sure you get a POPLA code from UKPC if the Uni will not cancel this themselves.

This is called self-ticketing and is very common - you can read the section about it in the BPA code of practice to see what the 'rules' are that the PPC were supposed to follow and it can add a nice new paragraph to our usual POPLA appeals which will make life a bit more varied on here. You can object to the self ticketing in any POPLA appeal (only part of the POPLA appeal of course) but put the PPC to proof that they have trained the operatives, in accordance with the BPA CoP, etc.

I have an idea - how about reading the BPA code of self-ticketing so you know what UKPC should have done, and then write a brief complaint to the Uni with some simple question 'tell me what training your operative has received from UKPC' and 'has the ticketing staff member read and understood the BPA code of Practice and POFA 2012 or is UKPC responsible for rules and regulations?'

...and similar loaded questions (do not explain why you are asking, just write it almost naively!). Would be hilarious if the Uni say they just bought a pack of tickets and they defer to UKPC for everything else, as that would then form part of your POPLA evidence!

bazingamo

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Appeal AND complain - but the appeal to UKPC isn't to be sent until the NTK arrives, as you know. Make sure you get a POPLA code from UKPC if the Uni will not cancel this themselves.

This is called self-ticketing and is very common - you can read the section about it in the BPA code of practice to see what the 'rules' are that the PPC were supposed to follow and it can add a nice new paragraph to our usual POPLA appeals which will make life a bit more varied on here. You can object to the self ticketing in any POPLA appeal (only part of the POPLA appeal of course) but put the PPC to proof that they have trained the operatives, in accordance with the BPA CoP, etc.

I have an idea - how about reading the BPA code of self-ticketing so you know what UKPC should have done, and then write a brief complaint to the Uni with some simple question 'tell me what training your operative has received from UKPC' and 'has the ticketing staff member read and understood the BPA code of Practice and POFA 2012 or is UKPC responsible for rules and regulations?'

...and similar loaded questions (do not explain why you are asking, just write it almost naively!). Would be hilarious if the Uni say they just bought a pack of tickets and they defer to UKPC for everything else, as that would then form part of your POPLA evidence!

Thank you for your help!

I have already complained and they gave me the appeals address(!) and also called it a fine in the email.

Can I ask, sorry if I have missed this, why should I wait until the RtK letter comes?

peter_the_piper

Because it might not come in the correct timescale and is helpful at popla.

Umkomaas

bazingamo wrote: »

Thank you for your help!

I have already complained and they gave me the appeals address(!) and also called it a fine in the email.

Can I ask, sorry if I have missed this, why should I wait until the RtK letter comes?

Because all that's been issued is a Notice to Driver, and any response to this would be concluded that you were the driver. Now whether or not that is correct is immaterial at the moment.

The NtK can only be issued in the context of PoFA 2012 and that gives the RK more protection than it does a driver. This means the PPC has to ensure that every PoFA 'i' is dotted and every 't' is crossed, something that most are pretty woeful at. The more hurdles they have to get over, the more they are likely to trip up.

So be patient! But use the time to do plenty of research and reading to get yourself really up to speed on all this.