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Train fare landmark victory
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portisgreg
Posts: 7 Forumite
Hi all!
Saw this article yesterday, and was wondering if this will be like the unfair bank charges? Also if anyone knows the best process in contacting the train companies.
ww.standard.co.uk/news/transport/rail-operators-face-huge-bills-as-commuter-wins-battle-over-first-capital-connect-season-ticket-loophole-8866377.html
A commuter has won a landmark legal victory over a train company after discovering he could save hundreds of pounds buying his season ticket from a different station.
Lawyer Andrew Myers successfully sued First Capital Connect after discovering he was paying £700 more than the cheapest available ticket on his route — and today he urged thousands of other travellers to take advantage of the ruling.
The company initially tried to settle the case out of court and use a gagging order to stop him discussing it.
But Mr Myers wanted his day in court and not only won, but was also awarded costs of £2,193 after a St Albans county court judge ruled the train company’s behaviour was unreasonable. The victory has left train operators trying to close “loopholes” which could force them to slash the cost of season tickets for thousands of people.
Mr Myers, who lives in St Albans and works in the City, took the company to court after discovering he could buy a season ticket from Watford North, which is closer to London, and use it from St Albans. The Watford North ticket, costing £3,068 a year, was £700 cheaper than the St Albans version.
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When challenged by a FCC official, who said he had to buy a separate ticket, Mr Myers issued proceedings against the company in March.
He obtained correspondence to and from FCC’s parent company First Group which said the loophole in the planner — which put St Albans on the route into London from Watford, even though it was further away — must be closed immediately as “the financial implications are massive”.
The Department for Transport said it was “currently assessing a request” by the Association of Train Operating Companies to close the loophole, meaning other commuters from St Albans could demand similar reductions.
Mr Myers said: “The fact the DfT say they are still assessing the ATOC request is hugely significant. Anyone who has bought a ticket in the past seven months should ask the company why they have been charged £700 more when they realised back in March a cheaper fare was available.”
Mr Myers said: “It is outrageous that FCC have been selling season tickets for £700 more. I did not think it right that they could buy my silence.” The FCC said Mr Myers had uncovered “a previously unknown historic routing guide error that harks back to the days of British Rail”.
Asked if commuters should have been made aware of the cheaper season ticket option as soon as FCC discovered it, a spokesman for FCC said: “Probably no”, saying the routing information was clearly an error which needed to be fixed.
A spokesman for FFC said confusion over the status of the loophole arose because they they were told by ATOC in March it had been had been closed.
He added that they did not “proactively broadcast” the possibility of a ticket to Watford North also allowing travel to St Albans as it was “an error” and would not have shown up in computers as a possibility for anyone asking for a ticket to and from London and St Albans.
He added: “We always offer the cheapest ticket marked with the departure and destination stations requested.”
An ATOC spokesman said: “This is an example of a very obscure error in a system that offers millions of tickets for travel between more than 2,500 stations.
“If other such errors are found, we will look to correct them to ensure that all passengers are treated fairly.”
Saw this article yesterday, and was wondering if this will be like the unfair bank charges? Also if anyone knows the best process in contacting the train companies.
ww.standard.co.uk/news/transport/rail-operators-face-huge-bills-as-commuter-wins-battle-over-first-capital-connect-season-ticket-loophole-8866377.html
A commuter has won a landmark legal victory over a train company after discovering he could save hundreds of pounds buying his season ticket from a different station.
Lawyer Andrew Myers successfully sued First Capital Connect after discovering he was paying £700 more than the cheapest available ticket on his route — and today he urged thousands of other travellers to take advantage of the ruling.
The company initially tried to settle the case out of court and use a gagging order to stop him discussing it.
But Mr Myers wanted his day in court and not only won, but was also awarded costs of £2,193 after a St Albans county court judge ruled the train company’s behaviour was unreasonable. The victory has left train operators trying to close “loopholes” which could force them to slash the cost of season tickets for thousands of people.
Mr Myers, who lives in St Albans and works in the City, took the company to court after discovering he could buy a season ticket from Watford North, which is closer to London, and use it from St Albans. The Watford North ticket, costing £3,068 a year, was £700 cheaper than the St Albans version.
Related stories
Andrew Adonis: Give Londoners a real break on rising fares, Boris
Boris Johnson: Give 'hard-working' commuters a tax break on rail season tickets
'Fiasco' as HS2 wrongly warns residents they will lose homes
When challenged by a FCC official, who said he had to buy a separate ticket, Mr Myers issued proceedings against the company in March.
He obtained correspondence to and from FCC’s parent company First Group which said the loophole in the planner — which put St Albans on the route into London from Watford, even though it was further away — must be closed immediately as “the financial implications are massive”.
The Department for Transport said it was “currently assessing a request” by the Association of Train Operating Companies to close the loophole, meaning other commuters from St Albans could demand similar reductions.
Mr Myers said: “The fact the DfT say they are still assessing the ATOC request is hugely significant. Anyone who has bought a ticket in the past seven months should ask the company why they have been charged £700 more when they realised back in March a cheaper fare was available.”
Mr Myers said: “It is outrageous that FCC have been selling season tickets for £700 more. I did not think it right that they could buy my silence.” The FCC said Mr Myers had uncovered “a previously unknown historic routing guide error that harks back to the days of British Rail”.
Asked if commuters should have been made aware of the cheaper season ticket option as soon as FCC discovered it, a spokesman for FCC said: “Probably no”, saying the routing information was clearly an error which needed to be fixed.
A spokesman for FFC said confusion over the status of the loophole arose because they they were told by ATOC in March it had been had been closed.
He added that they did not “proactively broadcast” the possibility of a ticket to Watford North also allowing travel to St Albans as it was “an error” and would not have shown up in computers as a possibility for anyone asking for a ticket to and from London and St Albans.
He added: “We always offer the cheapest ticket marked with the departure and destination stations requested.”
An ATOC spokesman said: “This is an example of a very obscure error in a system that offers millions of tickets for travel between more than 2,500 stations.
“If other such errors are found, we will look to correct them to ensure that all passengers are treated fairly.”
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Comments
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This story has been "hyped up" by the press.
Yes - the rail company did not act very honourably. His victory was bought about by a particular "easement" which applied his particular route.
Another point, a rail company is not under any obligation sell you the cheapest ticket, thy have to supply you with what you ask for.
All the company has to do is to cancel this easement - they certainly aren't going to lose "millions" as one paper claimed. Cancelling this easement may well cause extra difficulties/costs for many other travellers who use this facility for the purpose that it was intended. A smart-alec lawyer may end up costing lots of other people money - but isn't that what the legal profession is all about ??
:D 0 -
yangptangkipperbang wrote: »This story has been "hyped up" by the press.
Yes - the rail company did not act very honourably. His victory was bought about by a particular "easement" which applied his particular route.
Another point, a rail company is not under any obligation sell you the cheapest ticket, thy have to supply you with what you ask for.
All the company has to do is to cancel this easement - they certainly aren't going to lose "millions" as one paper claimed. Cancelling this easement may well cause extra difficulties/costs for many other travellers who use this facility for the purpose that it was intended. A smart-alec lawyer may end up costing lots of other people money - but isn't that what the legal profession is all about ??:D
Your post is wrong from beginning to end.
There is and was no easement applicable for this ticket.
It was not about the rail company refusing to sell him the ticket, and nor was it about them failing to sell him the cheapest ticket for the journey. Nor indeed was the ticket he did use the cheapest ticket for the journey
You can buy pretty much any rail ticket you like without too much trouble, if Train Station A doesn't want to sell it, just try somewhere else.
He had a Watford North - London Travelcard season. This ticket is and was valid via St Albans, because that was the shortest route to one of the London zone 6 boundaries.
This has little to do with smart alec lawyers. Companies such as FCC routinely threaten passengers with criminal records by claiming that a given ticket is not valid. In this case, as in others, the ticket WAS valid, and FCC knew that but still continued to abuse their position to make threats.
Eventually when FCC realised they could not bully this particular passenger, they tried to settle out of court to avoid the adverse publicity that they deserve. This failed because the passenger wanted to expose their lies.
Finally when the passenger had his day in court, and, rightly, won, they put out more lies in their press releases claiming that the ticket was no longer valid - again, a lie.0 -
And also there is not necessarily any loophole here. A travelcard is valid anywhere within the zones. If you wanted to travel to say Mill Hill Broadway, then the supposedly crazy route via St Albans is actually the fastest way.
http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/timesandfares/WFN/MIL/tomorrow/1300/dep
As shown above, a travelcard is valid for this journey.0 -
An earlier thread on the same subject:0
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thelawnet is 100% correct.
The ticket is valid from Watford North to the boundary of Zone 6. I believe that if you take Elstree & Borehamwood as your chosen boundary station, then a permitted route is via St Albans (which is a recognised walking interchange).yangptangkipperbang wrote: »This story has been "hyped up" by the press.
Yes - the rail company did not act very honourably. His victory was bought about by a particular "easement" which applied his particular route.
I agree, but the problem is that some TOCs will not honour valid tickets, and that's really what this is about.yangptangkipperbang wrote: »Another point, a rail company is not under any obligation sell you the cheapest ticket, thy have to supply you with what you ask for.
I don't agree that this ticket would cease to be valid via St Albans by simply cancelling an easement.yangptangkipperbang wrote: »All the company has to do is to cancel this easement - they certainly aren't going to lose "millions" as one paper claimed. Cancelling this easement may well cause extra difficulties/costs for many other travellers who use this facility for the purpose that it was intended. A smart-alec lawyer may end up costing lots of other people money - but isn't that what the legal profession is all about ??:D0 -
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yangptangkipperbang wrote: »Suggest you read the facts - there WAS an easement which applied to this route !
Can you please tell us the number of this easement. I can't find it.0 -
What easement number?yangptangkipperbang wrote: »Suggest you read the facts - there WAS an easement which applied to this route !
The facts are that the ticket is from Watford North to London Zones 1-6, and this validity consists of a Travelcard within Zones 1-6 plus any permitted routes from origin (Watford North) to a Boundary Zone 6 station (in this case Elstree & Borehamwood).
In this case, Watford North to Elstree & Borehamwood is valid via St Albans, so therefore Watford North to Boundary Zone 6 is valid via St Albans, and a Travelcard from Watford North includes that, plus unlimited travel within Zones 1-6.
Look at the FCC journey planner now for a journey from Watford North to Elstree & Borehamwood, put in a day return and it will happilly offer you a One Day Travelcard, with an itinerary via St Albans.
This is discussed in great depth elsewhere, but I am not allowed to link to any website which I am either involved in, or friends with people involved in, so I can't provide a link.0 -
This is discussed in great depth elsewhere, but I am not allowed to link to any website which I am either involved in, or friends with people involved in, so I can't provide a link.
I do not suffer from such a restriction, and will happily supply the link:
Just to confirm... I have absolutely no idea who anyone on that forum is. 0 -
Thanks for all the replies. I have a particular interest in this story since I live 5 minutes from St Albans train station and I commute to St Pancras each day.
I would like to save £700 a year! The train fare is killing my wallet!
Maybe I'm being a bit thick but it seems I'm getting lots of conflicting information. Has this loophole been closed? I bought an annual season ticket - St Albans to St Pancras (not including Travelcard) in August - can I claim back the overcharged amount? In fact, does this even apply to me?
Otherwise - I assume I can get a refund on my current ticket and buy a watford junction one.
I don't have the legal knowhow or funds to fight FCC in court so I don't want to end up worse off.
Thanks in advance for your help
Greg0
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