Yet another PCN Court Case

oldfazer

HI
first time poster here and another victim of PCN (NW) taking my case to the County Court Claim stage.
I was the RK of the vehicle at the date of the incident.
The issue involves the car parking at St Helens College. After the college closes the car park is available for free parking for the cinema. The college and the cinema are at opposite ends of the car park. There are disabled marked spaces, but I had assumed these would be for college users in the daytime and not used by disabled users of the cinema in the evening. The main sign entering the complex states disc holders at specfied times. The alleged incident took place outside of these disc holder times.

In early Nov 2012 the driver parked in a disabled space choosing one nearest to the college (which was now closed). Other disabled spaces closer to the cinema were still free. A Parking Enforcement Notice for parking in a disabled space (£100, £50 if paid within 14 days) was left on the windscreen.
On 4 March 2013 (well after the date of the incident) as RK I received a Parking Charge Notice from PCN claiming £100.
On 8 April 2013 came the first letter from Roxburghe claiming £160.
On 19 April came the letter from Graham White Solicitors (still asking for £160, but saying that charges may rise to £207.25.
On 2 May 2013 came the 2nd letter frtom Roxburghe offering to accept a lesser (unspecified) sum and to phone them to find out what this sum might be.
On 29 July 2013 came a Letter of Claim from GPB Solicitors.


I have now received the County Court Claim (for £230 ish ) dated 25 September. I have today filed the Acknowledgement of Service online but would be grateful for any assistance in preparing a case.



The car park is free so I don't see how PCN can claim £160 and certainly no contract was entered into on this basis. Also is the timing of the letter of 4 March from PCN (120+ days after the offence) an issue ?

The events and mails are exactly the same trail of events as per Jimmy_Shand who's thread I have been following. As a first time poster i'm unable to post a link.


Apologies to Jimmy_Shand for the plagarism but circumstances very similar - although I have made no contact with PCN/Roxboroughe/graham White / Gpb.


Any help or assistance gratefully recieved.

esmerobbo

It will be interesting when we see the detailed POC for one of these latest PCN NW/GBP claims if the calendar of events match what of the OP's.

Otherwise they are going to have some explaining to do to a Judge why they are pursuing a keeper when they have not adhered to the requirements of POFA.

Folkiedave

Read this and see what a judge thought of a claim.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=77826&hl=Court+win

Coupon-mad

St Helens College deserves a heap of complaints about this harassment by their agent. Can't add any more than I have already linked in JimmyShand's thread really; defend it and complain. Look for the breaches in the BPA Code of Practice and breaches of POFA 2012 which mean the keeper is not liable (and do not name nor imply the driver at any point):

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

And look at all these winning cases to find the things judges listened to - tailor your defence accordingly to stuff like 'unenforceable penalty' and dodgy signs!

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showpost.php?p=62971894&postcount=65

You are on a 'stickier wicket' than some if you were parked in a disabled bay with no reason (no medical condition nor other reason) because like in the recent Ming Rider (his username) lost case on pepipoo against UKCPS over a disabled bay, the judge might make their mind up beforehand (allegedly, it seemed...). Not something to repeat nor something this forum condones since disabled people do also go out and about in the evening...always leave those bays empty.

HTH

Scouse_Magic

Seen as you have had court papers issued.....Do not complain to anyone....That will get you nowhere.. I do agree with the last post above

You have done right by acknowledging service.....Now defend and counter claim....The case will have to go ahead regardless...

A fantastic day out

Half_way

personally I disagree with this bit

Do not complain to anyone....That will get you nowhere

This car parking site seems to crop up on a regular basis, and every complaint will be useful.
Also the college should be able to call off its agents at any time.

You could also do an FOI request on the college to get the parking information/contract out of them - there are a few ( none parking ones) here https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/body/st_helens_community_college

Coupon-mad

Scouse_Magic wrote: »

Seen as you have had court papers issued.....Do not complain to anyone....That will get you nowhere.. I do agree with the last post above

I disagree and would cite the six cases linked in my sticky 'successful complaints about PPCs' - the six PE cases where complaints to the landowner/retailers got cases quashed after court papers had been issued. And I have only been collating these cases since August, just a few weeks...

Scouse_Magic

The OP has not got time to appeal to everyone bar the pope, he has had county court papers issued and needs to prepare a Court Defence not a plea to the BPA..

Hey if I say appeal to the BPA, maybe I will get the same amount of thank you's :rotfl:

Yes this car park does crop up a lot doesn't it...and isn't it just remarkable in fact the best ever coming together by chance that Roxburghe, PCN NW, GPB, Graham White all share the same cosy building conducted by one man !

OP look around on google for the following cases: VCS Ltd Vs Ibbotson VCS Ltd Vs HMRC Excel Parking Service V Hetherington- Jakeman, OB Services Vs Thurlow

£235 or whatever it is, is not a genuine pre estimate of loss, if it were why where they prepared to accept £50 or lesser amount (if paid promptly)? It was clearly a threat to deter parking

And Going to court is not a lottery as long as you can provide enough basic legal argument, in addition to reminding the judge of the reputation of the firm that truly brings the claim

Coupon-mad

He does have time, calm down. We know he has a strict time limit to acknowledge and defend - but the point is a complaint can work the same day and save him all that hassle. I never said the complaint should be to the BPA, it should always be to the principal (college in this case).

I know you enjoy your days in court but most OPs would rather avoid it!

Scouse_Magic

Coupon-mad wrote: »

He does have time, calm down. We know he has a strict time limit to acknowledge and defend - but the point is a complaint can work the same day and save him all that hassle. I never said the complaint should be to the BPA, it should always be to the principal (college in this case).

I know you enjoy your days in court but most OPs would rather avoid it!

No i am sorry I disagree with you....This is Roxburghe we are talking about....Complaining to the college may raise a few eyebrows but they will be too scared to cancel any contract with a PPC as it would cost them a fortune as it did with Farm Foods & Parking Eye £350,000

The likely hood is, that when they see a defence lodged they will drop it like a lead balloon.....However they may fancy their chance now GPB are on the sceene.

The only way to ward off these pests is the Law itself :A

Scouse_Magic

I would also like to quote from another thread

"To anyone receiving these letters please make a formal complaint to the OFFICE OF FAIR TRADING as Roxburghe's credit licence is still pending following investigations.

Also cited on the register is that Roxburghe also trade as PCN PARKING SERVICES. They therefore are committing acts of gross misrepresentation and fraud by issuing parking charges and then debt collection letters adding additional charges. Everyone should complain to get these scammers out of business."