connecting copper pipe to galvanised lead water pipe

sloth

Hi,

Im reasonably confident with plumbing problems but would like to check with others to see if I'm thinking correctly...


I have (i'm pretty sure) galvanised steel pipes bringing the water in. These go to a stopcock (one each one hot and cold) and then a bit more steel pipe, which then converts into copper with some sort of connection. this is all leaking and so i want to replace it..My plan is to buy new stopcocks and fit them to the lead pipe and then new copper pipe to the other side. I need to use compression fittings as Im not an actual plumber and so don't have access to soldering copper etc


i guess my question in a nutshell is...can i connect steel pipe to copper pipe using compression fittings?


thanks

keystone

Based on your plan I think you mean connect lead to copper but yes you can connect old steel barrel to copper too. Having said that the steel is probably rusted up wholesale inside and the diamter of the pipe reduced alarmingly which affect flow rate. I'd suggest you get rid of as much barrel as possible tbh.

You need a leadloc:



to connect your lead to a length of 15mm copper then your stopcock (quite permissable under Water Regs now to use a full bore lever valve instead) and then the rest of your copper. It is no longer permissable to "wipe" a joint of copper to lead. The skill has largely vanished anyway.

Leadlocs are sized according to the diameter of the lead and its weight in lbs per foot. Speak to your plumbers merchant. You'll get nothing but blank stares in a shed.

Cheers

sloth

keystone wrote: »

Based on your plan I think you mean connect lead to copper but yes you can connect old steel barrel to copper too. Having said that the steel is probably rusted up wholesale inside and the diamter of the pipe reduced alarmingly which affect flow rate. I'd suggest you get rid of as much barrel as possible tbh.

You need a leadloc:



to connect your lead to a length of 15mm copper then your stopcock (quite permissable under Water Regs now to use a full bore lever valve instead) and then the rest of your copper. It is no longer permissable to "wipe" a joint of copper to lead. The skill has largely vanished anyway.

Leadlocs are sized according to the diameter of the lead and its weight in lbs per foot. Speak to your plumbers merchant. You'll get nothing but blank stares in a shed.

Cheers

Thanks for the reply and Im pleased cos a lot of it ties in with what i have read so i know i'm looking in the right direction. My only query is tho, and i know you haven't seen it and so cant comment easily, but im pretty sure it is steel and not lead. I thought it was lead initally but someone who came to the house and start scratching all the crap off the outside of the pipe to reveal a shiny pipe said its steel. is there any easy way to tell?


thanks for your help

Mr_Ted

Yes, lead is soft and will cut easily with a knife if you scrap it, steel wont

IF IT IS lead, then you'll need to look along the seam of the lead pipe, and IF its still visible, you will see the grade of lead written on it as KS has described.
Buffing gently with a little wire wool will help to highlight the written info cast into the lead seam
BUT if you cant see it or read it due to deterioration then you will have to cut a piece out and take it with you to a plumbers merchants, NOT SHED as KS has already said, for them to use as a template for a fitting
This will of course mean you will have to do it when you actually do the job and be able to complete it, as you will have cut off the water supply pending the repairs, so give yourself plenty of time to do it and remember MOST plumbers merchants are only open week days!

If it is galvanized mild steel then you will have to go back to a threaded joint, each end, cut the pipe, it will be hard , and remove a section, then use a BRASS connection(probably 1/2" BSP x 15mm copper) to make the repair each end of the section to be cut out

IT MUST BE BRASS or you will get an electrolytic reaction and corrosion :eek:

keystone

Lead is soft - steel ain't. Steel looks like this:



and by the way if it is steel it probably looks like this:



inside.

The ends of steel barrel are threaded to take the next length - either male or female.

You need a connector similar to this (this one is 22mm x 3/4")



for a female threaded pipe and one like this (also 22 x 3/4 as it happens):



for a male threaded pipe. Note that the threaded parts of the connector are tapered so that the more you do it up the tighter and tighter it gets. Don't force it too much or you'll split the casting. This is one occasion where a wrap of PTFE around the threads is useful as there is no olive for the steel connection.

HTH

Cheers.

sloth

Mr_Ted wrote: »

Yes, lead is soft and will cut easily with a knife if you scrap it, steel wont

IF IT IS lead, then you'll need to look along the seam of the lead pipe, and IF its still visible, you will see the grade of lead written on it as KS has described.
Buffing gently with a little wire wool will help to highlight the written info cast into the lead seam
BUT if you cant see it or read it due to deterioration then you will have to cut a piece out and take it with you to a plumbers merchants, NOT SHED as KS has already said, for them to use as a template for a fitting
This will of course mean you will have to do it when you actually do the job and be able to complete it, as you will have cut off the water supply pending the repairs, so give yourself plenty of time to do it and remember MOST plumbers merchants are only open week days!

If it is galvanized mild steel then you will have to go back to a threaded joint, each end, cut the pipe, it will be hard , and remove a section, then use a BRASS connection(probably 1/2" BSP x 15mm copper) to make the repair each end of the section to be cut out

IT MUST BE BRASS or you will get an electrolytic reaction and corrosion :eek:

when you say cut with a knife, i assume you mean like a stanley knife etc? if so then i'm right, it is def galvanised steel as its very hard and tough. it wouldn't cut with a knife


ok so i need to find the thread on the end of the steel pipe, and then use a brass bsp connector (which im assuming is threaded on one end and that also connects to copper on the other end. Im assuming i cant just cut the steel pipe further back (as keystone suggested to remove some more) with an angle grinder and then use a brass compression fitting, or can i?


the reason i ask is that most of the steel pipe is pretty inaccessible and i think im going to struggle to find a threaded end


thanks for your help

sloth

keystone wrote: »

Lead is soft - steel ain't. Steel looks like this:



and by the way if it is steel it probably looks like this:



inside.

The ends of steel barrel are threaded to take the next length - either male or female.

You need a connector similar to this (this one is 22mm x 3/4")



for a female threaded pipe and one like this (also 22 x 3/4 as it happens):



for a male threaded pipe. Note that the threaded parts of the connector are tapered so that the more you do it up the tighter and tighter it gets. Don't force it too much or you'll split the casting. This is one occasion where a wrap of PTFE around the threads is useful as there is no olive for the steel connection.

HTH

Cheers.

thanks, yes seeing that im convinced it is steel. I asked on the other post can i just cut the existing pipe with an angle grinder and then use a compression fitting due to ease of access?


btw i agree with your sentiment on the state of the pipe, but the property is leasehold and up until the stopcock im not really suppossed to touch it i think, so all i can do is cut it back a bit, but not much


thanks

keystone

You'll never get a compression fitting to work on a steel pipe. The way they work is that the olive squeezes and partially bites into the copper to make a seal. Steel isn't as maleable as copper and it just won't work. I have seen somewhere a pushfit that purports to be able to be used on steel but I wouldn't trust it farther than I could throw it - particularly with mains pressure behind it.

If you are determined to cut the steel then you'll need to get someone along to thread it for you after you have cut it. A threaded joint is the only way to do it.

You'll probably find it easier to find the closest joint to to where you want to be and go from there. You'll probably need a mahusive pair of stilsons x 2 to undo the joint though coupled with a great deal of ignorance. If its been there a long time it will take a lot of shifting. Last one I did I had to go and hire two 36 inch ones 'cos the smaller ones on my van weren't up to the job.

Cheers

sloth

keystone wrote: »

You'll never get a compression fitting to work on a steel pipe. The way they work is that the olive squeezes and partially bites into the copper to make a seal. Steel isn't as maleable as copper and it just won't work. I have seen somewhere a pushfit that purports to be able to be used on steel but I wouldn't trust it farther than I could throw it - particularly with mains pressure behind it.

If you are determined to cut the steel then you'll need to get someone along to thread it for you after you have cut it. A threaded joint is the only way to do it.

You'll probably find it easier to find the closest joint to to where you want to be and go from there. You'll probably need a mahusive pair of stilsons x 2 to undo the joint though coupled with a great deal of ignorance. If its been there a long time it will take a lot of shifting. Last one I did I had to go and hire two 36 inch ones 'cos the smaller ones on my van weren't up to the job.

Cheers

haha thanks, i had to google stilson cos i wasn't sure what they where. i see so could be a bit stiff. I guess ill just have to give it a go


thanks for your help