We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
The Forum now has a brand new text editor, adding a bunch of handy features to use when creating posts. Read more in our how-to guide
Final Employment Negotiations, Global settlement and Malicious acts
Kingskid
Posts: 18 Forumite
Thank you all for everything you have done to help me. I have just spent the last few hours reviewing all the wonderful advice I got and how your support tided me over in a terrible time. I will try and update you briefly and fill gaps that I noticed in your questions, now that I am well enough to do so. I hope you are not tired of me. Please do not be. Sorry it will be long. The two links relate to the history and my intermittent updates.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3917861
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4489985
I worked in a University. My case has taken so long because I was ill last year with stress as a result of the bullying I suffered and closing of ranks (academic mobbing) and later put on medical suspension. Before return, I was to have been dismissed "on health grounds" in Jan 2013 but as they got the ET1 and then their ET3 said "I had not yet been dismissed". However, their lawyer and mine have now said you can be dismissed fairly and with the length of time involved this is possible but they want to avoid the tribunal and the insurance lawyers says it is not just about my being able to win but also the cost that the insurance would bear relative to a potential win of injury to feelings only. I mentioned that I would not have necessarily lost my job and that losing my job in my view constructive dismissal should consider my health and limits of potential work.
Summary
I have a complicated employment case which has gone on for a very long time. I have employment, education and personal injury claims potentially. They wish to settle the tribunal claim but are now asking me to drop all claims (race and disability discrimination in education, harassment and victimization).
The employment lawyer has in principle agreed with them that I will terminate my employment (31 August 2013), yes
I was very ill but after over 18 months of psychotherapy, lots of horrible medication with nasty side effects, I am strong enough to walk away from my employers and leave the employment tribunal case. It is easier to be rational when you feel better 
However, my employers want to do everything possible to ruin the rest of my life to the best of their ability.
My education adviser feels that even if their employment HR investigator made up lies (I have the true recording), they have no right to insist on me dropping out of my course. It is a long story but with my education, they said I could come up with a plan for continuation without the bully, and I did but that has been frustrated and aborted. Furthermore, their HR went to contact the new supervisor behind my back and without my consent. This recent finding has shocked me but worse than that, the new person has now become silent. Therefore my employers have started a new concern of further detriment.
The option they want me to take is to leave both my job and studies. The latter for £3k and the former will be about a year's salary (£40k) of which £18k will be injury to feelings according to employment lawyer for the insurance. It is very difficult to find a new person to supervise me in a new Uni on old work and starting afresh will cost me about £20k! They insist they want a global settlement but I feel very cheated.
More details if needed.
1. Employer is an academic institution. I have worked very hard as a lecturer and a part-time student. There was a conflict of interest as my supervisor was also my line manager and it emerged that I was doing better in my independent research work and I broke the first rule of power (never outshine the master) and suffered academic mobbing- http://academicmobbing.blogspot.co.uk/
2. My studies were deliberately being frustrated and I was being bullied by this individual with a dual role and became stressed and this got out of hands when I spoke up, as people closed ranks.
3. In January, 2013 they asked me not to return regardless of my health and then their doctor said I was unlikely to return to work in the "foreseeable future" due to “conflicts” and the "impact of these conflicts on my health". I was to then meet with Organisation to be dismissed on health grounds. However, before this was done, my ET1 arrived on their desk.
4. In Feb 2013, I was contacted for a WP meeting and offered about a year's pay BUT the problem at the time was my health concerns and MY COURSE arrangements which they had not addressed.
5. I had made an academic complaint but as with the employment, they wanted to push it under the carpet and I was to walk away from the course after 5 years. The academic complaint should normally have taken four weeks in total (2 stages) but in my case it has taken about 18 months and they could not fault my work, yet wanted me to “do as told” and stay with the bully! Furthermore, they wanted to force me to take an assessment before addressing the supervision issue and recent revelation (following my request for data under the data protection act) has shown a letter suggesting that they were hoping to fail me. You cannot complain against academic judgement but you can against supervision which I have done and which is evident as facts such as my “supervisor’s” credentials and lack of productivity are easily assessed e.g. publication history (nil).
6. In July / August 2013 like I said, the Insurance Lawyer took up the employment case when they wanted to sneak a WP meeting on me and although it was on the subject heading along with other wordings, I did not notice. He wrote their lawyer and stated that they should now contact him from henceforth and that I was not willing to remain with them in view of all that they had done. They replied him that in any case, they were going to dismiss me based on the lies of the "credible HR investigator" and a suggestion that I was crazy and even that an earlier physical attack of robbery in 2000 had led to my stress and PTSD not the bullying. Before the stress they gave me I had no record of psychiatric illness.
7. Finally we have almost agreed for employment settlement BUT
1. They have really victimised me in my studies. They have refused to give the letter which ends their process (completion) and which therefore allows me to take the education issue to an adjudicator.
They have refused to answer basic questions about the supervisor's inactivity and the leaked plan to fail me. They want me to drop my education charges along with my employment. They want me to leave both my job and studies.
2. The Education adviser feels this is very wrong as the solution they want is for me to drop out and start afresh elsewhere – which would cost me not only time but a lot of money.
3. The employment lawyer is negotiating £18k for my injury to feelings. Nothing has been said by anyone about my personal injury and it seems they want me to sign that off too.
4. No consideration for my fees for my education (about £20k and they want to pay £3k.) and nothing about loss of income.
5. Even when I asked to transfer it out of my department and have someone else supervise. They initially said OK and it would have been negotiated by a research director who will liaise internally. I should come up with my proposal. I did and after I had identified a suitable person, suddenly their lawyer said I should negotiate with this person myself after keeping me waiting for a long time. Then when I made the contact, before this new person had responded, they said it was no longer an option and I must take £3k and leave my studies. However, when the person got back to me, she told me during conversation that the HR officer had gone behind my back (rather than the academic person) to contact this new supervisor who wanted to take me on. I found this out last week. Now, she is no longer picking my calls or responding to my emails.
6. The level of malice is significant and I feel very sad. This new action by HR is clearly detrimental and brings up another employment matter. For now, they asked for "a stay" on the case management meeting and a stay on my education complaints. The education adviser thinks I should insist on a separation of issues but he is concerned about the risk of losing the employment negotiation and says "it depends on how brave I want to be".
7. I feel that the employment lawyer has tried his best and I do not want to let him feel he wasted his time, yet I feel that the recent incident is sufficient to raise the bar???
Thanks a lot for reading this long story.
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3917861
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4489985
I worked in a University. My case has taken so long because I was ill last year with stress as a result of the bullying I suffered and closing of ranks (academic mobbing) and later put on medical suspension. Before return, I was to have been dismissed "on health grounds" in Jan 2013 but as they got the ET1 and then their ET3 said "I had not yet been dismissed". However, their lawyer and mine have now said you can be dismissed fairly and with the length of time involved this is possible but they want to avoid the tribunal and the insurance lawyers says it is not just about my being able to win but also the cost that the insurance would bear relative to a potential win of injury to feelings only. I mentioned that I would not have necessarily lost my job and that losing my job in my view constructive dismissal should consider my health and limits of potential work.
Summary
I have a complicated employment case which has gone on for a very long time. I have employment, education and personal injury claims potentially. They wish to settle the tribunal claim but are now asking me to drop all claims (race and disability discrimination in education, harassment and victimization).
The employment lawyer has in principle agreed with them that I will terminate my employment (31 August 2013), yes
I was very ill but after over 18 months of psychotherapy, lots of horrible medication with nasty side effects, I am strong enough to walk away from my employers and leave the employment tribunal case. It is easier to be rational when you feel better However, my employers want to do everything possible to ruin the rest of my life to the best of their ability.My education adviser feels that even if their employment HR investigator made up lies (I have the true recording), they have no right to insist on me dropping out of my course. It is a long story but with my education, they said I could come up with a plan for continuation without the bully, and I did but that has been frustrated and aborted. Furthermore, their HR went to contact the new supervisor behind my back and without my consent. This recent finding has shocked me but worse than that, the new person has now become silent. Therefore my employers have started a new concern of further detriment.
The option they want me to take is to leave both my job and studies. The latter for £3k and the former will be about a year's salary (£40k) of which £18k will be injury to feelings according to employment lawyer for the insurance. It is very difficult to find a new person to supervise me in a new Uni on old work and starting afresh will cost me about £20k! They insist they want a global settlement but I feel very cheated.
More details if needed.
1. Employer is an academic institution. I have worked very hard as a lecturer and a part-time student. There was a conflict of interest as my supervisor was also my line manager and it emerged that I was doing better in my independent research work and I broke the first rule of power (never outshine the master) and suffered academic mobbing- http://academicmobbing.blogspot.co.uk/
2. My studies were deliberately being frustrated and I was being bullied by this individual with a dual role and became stressed and this got out of hands when I spoke up, as people closed ranks.
3. In January, 2013 they asked me not to return regardless of my health and then their doctor said I was unlikely to return to work in the "foreseeable future" due to “conflicts” and the "impact of these conflicts on my health". I was to then meet with Organisation to be dismissed on health grounds. However, before this was done, my ET1 arrived on their desk.
4. In Feb 2013, I was contacted for a WP meeting and offered about a year's pay BUT the problem at the time was my health concerns and MY COURSE arrangements which they had not addressed.
5. I had made an academic complaint but as with the employment, they wanted to push it under the carpet and I was to walk away from the course after 5 years. The academic complaint should normally have taken four weeks in total (2 stages) but in my case it has taken about 18 months and they could not fault my work, yet wanted me to “do as told” and stay with the bully! Furthermore, they wanted to force me to take an assessment before addressing the supervision issue and recent revelation (following my request for data under the data protection act) has shown a letter suggesting that they were hoping to fail me. You cannot complain against academic judgement but you can against supervision which I have done and which is evident as facts such as my “supervisor’s” credentials and lack of productivity are easily assessed e.g. publication history (nil).
6. In July / August 2013 like I said, the Insurance Lawyer took up the employment case when they wanted to sneak a WP meeting on me and although it was on the subject heading along with other wordings, I did not notice. He wrote their lawyer and stated that they should now contact him from henceforth and that I was not willing to remain with them in view of all that they had done. They replied him that in any case, they were going to dismiss me based on the lies of the "credible HR investigator" and a suggestion that I was crazy and even that an earlier physical attack of robbery in 2000 had led to my stress and PTSD not the bullying. Before the stress they gave me I had no record of psychiatric illness.
7. Finally we have almost agreed for employment settlement BUT
1. They have really victimised me in my studies. They have refused to give the letter which ends their process (completion) and which therefore allows me to take the education issue to an adjudicator.
They have refused to answer basic questions about the supervisor's inactivity and the leaked plan to fail me. They want me to drop my education charges along with my employment. They want me to leave both my job and studies.
2. The Education adviser feels this is very wrong as the solution they want is for me to drop out and start afresh elsewhere – which would cost me not only time but a lot of money.
3. The employment lawyer is negotiating £18k for my injury to feelings. Nothing has been said by anyone about my personal injury and it seems they want me to sign that off too.
4. No consideration for my fees for my education (about £20k and they want to pay £3k.) and nothing about loss of income.
5. Even when I asked to transfer it out of my department and have someone else supervise. They initially said OK and it would have been negotiated by a research director who will liaise internally. I should come up with my proposal. I did and after I had identified a suitable person, suddenly their lawyer said I should negotiate with this person myself after keeping me waiting for a long time. Then when I made the contact, before this new person had responded, they said it was no longer an option and I must take £3k and leave my studies. However, when the person got back to me, she told me during conversation that the HR officer had gone behind my back (rather than the academic person) to contact this new supervisor who wanted to take me on. I found this out last week. Now, she is no longer picking my calls or responding to my emails.
6. The level of malice is significant and I feel very sad. This new action by HR is clearly detrimental and brings up another employment matter. For now, they asked for "a stay" on the case management meeting and a stay on my education complaints. The education adviser thinks I should insist on a separation of issues but he is concerned about the risk of losing the employment negotiation and says "it depends on how brave I want to be".
7. I feel that the employment lawyer has tried his best and I do not want to let him feel he wasted his time, yet I feel that the recent incident is sufficient to raise the bar???
Thanks a lot for reading this long story.
0
Comments
-
And the point of this post is?0
-
Couldn't you keep it in the same thread? Didnt you also post this over at Consumer Action at the time as well?0
-
-
Please may I respectfully ask that if anyone is interested in providing their helpful views, it will be most appreciated. Anyone who has followed my case will know that I have been through and still going through a lot!
I am getting over a very difficult time and the last thing I need is stress from people who can simply choose to say nothing if they have nothing helpful to say. It does not need to be positive BUT it should not be pointless or unduly rude.
Please may I ask that if you have no answers, please please please simply ignore my post and avoid sarcasm. Many thanks indeed.0 -
blimey why did they sack you if you can type as much as that?0
-
£18,000 for your feelings?! Pathetic.
I'd love to hear to other side of this story.0 -
Hi Kingskid.
I feel your undoubted pain and sense of injustice by reading your post here and the linked threads.
You have experience, intelligence and highly developed skills and a great deal of energy.
My opinion fwiw is that you should accept the offer as it stands now, and use your positive energy to draw a line under the past horrible experiences and move on to a happier healthier future.
Otherwise all that energy is going towards fighting. You are fighting for justice, sure, but with your skills and energy so completely focussed on winning a battle against organisations that neither care or have any feelings, you are harming yourself.
I think others have advised you to put your health first already in the 2012 thread. You decided not to,
I will say that again...... YOU decided not to.
And I should add, your employer/Uni did not make you ill. YOUR REACTION to their treatment of you made you ill.
YOU are giving them to power to not only treat you badly in the first place, but to continue to have the power over your health and future.
I think it has gone on long enough and truly hope you will have the strength to stop the conflict and build a better happier future for yourself and your family.
YOU can do it if you want to.
Best of luck.:A Goddess :A0 -
Would I be correct in assuming that the illness they have given you is of the mental type?0
-
Take it and run! As you know, I walked under a CA and I've never looked back. I have the most wonderful life now and I most certainly would not have had the choices and experiences that I've had if I'd chosen to stay and fight longer.
I know it's hard, and it was actually my circumstances at the time which dictated my action to agree the CA (was in intensive care with prem baby and was supposed to be at employment tribunal the following week!). I am so pleased that my hand was turned for me (although I'd rather not have had my daughter 2 months early) as it has enabled me to move on.
There will always be sh1ts in life, it's whether you choose to keep the !!!! on your shoe or wipe it off xxxx 0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 354.5K Banking & Borrowing
- 254.4K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 455.4K Spending & Discounts
- 247.4K Work, Benefits & Business
- 604.2K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 178.5K Life & Family
- 261.7K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.7K Read-Only Boards