ESA mandatory reconsideration to start October 28th

epitome

Reply to post #6
Hmmm but it does also mention that 28days in relation to the HMCTS like Roger said. It does not say the recon will be done within 28days. So it does look like what I heard on that is wrong.

From those links the 28 days is for the DWP to respond to HMCTS when HMCTS sends DWP a request for a response* to an appeal submitted by an appellant.

From those links.... it mentions nowhere that there is any time limit on the MR process.

From those links it does say that any decision made on or after 28 October will be under MR rules. and any appeal submitted by the claimant on or after 28 October for a decision that was made before 28 October will still be subject to MR rules.

It does say that no payments will be made during recon.
It does say that once recon is finished and the claimant appeals to HMCTS there will be arrears paid for the recon period.
It says that these arrears will be paid once the DWP gets a request for a response to an appeal by HMCTS.*

It got me thinking that DWP sometimes loses tribunal letters and of those that they do receive, they sometimes takes up to 2 weeks to "recieve" them.
DWP only has 4 weeks to return a response or return a request for a time extension. If they ask for a time extension or there is no repsonse at all...the judge makes a decision whether to grant DWP the time extension....presumably if DWP fails to do this, the judge will either find in the apellants favour automatically or make a decision based on the apellants evidence without any DWP evidence....? Both of which would be good for the claimant.

I can imagine the courts getting very frustrated very quickly with the DWP losing lots of incoming post from HMCTS and not responding on time to those that are received.... and therefore ruling against DWP rather than allowing time extensions.

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portly1 wrote: »

The 28 calendar days relates ONLY to the exercise that the DWP have to carry out when and after the reconsideration has taken place. The DWP have these 28 days to lodge the appeal with the Tribunal service..

Not quite, the claimant has the responsibility of lodging the appeal directly to the court. The DWP has 28 days to reply to HMCT when the HMCT request the DWP for a response to the appeal lodged by the claimant.

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portly1 wrote: »

Personally if I was placed in this position the last thing that I would be doing is co-operating with the DWP during a reconsideration, thereby adding more time to their already lengthy processes. I would be telling the DWP that there is no other evidence available or anybody else for them to contact. Thereby getting the reconsideration period down to the minimum resulting in a much earlier submission to the Tribunal and my submission of the additional evidence. Doing this would see the ESA payments start up again sooner rather than later.

Only restarted whilston appeal, but if you lose the appeal, and your pressure has caused DWP to respond quicker resulting in a quicker turn around, you may be out of appeal -failed- within 6 months and have no recouse to ESA payments on a new claim. within those 6 months.

portly1

epitome wrote: »

I can imagine the courts getting very frustrated very quickly with the DWP losing lots of incoming post from HMCTS and not responding on time to those that are received.... and therfore ruling against DWP rather than allowing time extensions.

You might well think so, but from past experience of many Tribunal appeals that I have personally involved in, the Tribunal Service are very lenient with the DWP and time limits.

Even down to one case where the Chairman issued a directive to the DWP to produce further evidence and that this additional evidence be received by the TS within 1 month. Over 7 weeks later and nothing had been received from the DWP, yet the TS still sat back and waited. 9 weeks elapsed before the evidence was eventually received by the TS and they did nothing about the failure to supply within 4 weeks!!!

portly1

epitome wrote: »

Not quite, the claimant has the responsibility of lodging the appeal directly to the court. The DWP has 28 days to reply to HMCT when the HMCT request the DWP for a response to the appeal lodged by the claimant.

Thanks, yes you are right - I knew what I meant, but didn't word it properly.

As in the above post, I have never had a case where the TS went ahead with an appeal if the DWP had failed to supply information/evidence within the timescale allowed. They are very very lenient with the DWP, not so the appellant/claimant though!

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rogerblack wrote: »

In some cases - this is a fair enough point - if they have to contact outside bodies who delay their response.
But I see no justification whatsoever for not accepting or refusing reconsideration in a relatively short time - say 14 days, if no outside consultation is required.
You don't make the decision any better or worse if the decision waits several weeks before being looked at for half an hour.

Also strange that the DWP takes on average 2 weeks to make the first decision following receipt of ESA55, but takes on average 4 months to make a recon decision. It's arguably virtually the same decision/evidence why take so long to make it?

portly1

epitome wrote: »

Only restarted whilston appeal, but if you lose the appeal, and your pressure has caused DWP to respond quicker resulting in a quicker turn around, you may be out of appeal -failed- within 6 months and have no recouse to ESA payments on a new claim. within those 6 months.

I see where you are coming from.

But in that you are assuming that if I do it my way, the appeal hearing, and if it goes against me, occurs less than 6 months from the original decision date, I would have to wait the additional weeks up to the 6 month date before a new claim could be submitted?

It is most doubtful that a TS hearing will actually take place less than 26 weeks from the date of the decision notice. I wouldn't be prepared to wait upwards of a month or two or maybe more before the DWP get round to responding to an appeal which would trigger the start of the ESA payments to be made. The sooner that those payments start up again would be more important, in the knowledge that TS hearings are still delayed in some areas by up to a year!

portly1

epitome wrote: »

Also strange that the DWP takes on average 2 weeks to make the first decision following receipt of ESA55, but takes on average 4 months to make a recon decision. It's arguably virtually the same decision/evidence why take so long to make it?

Presumably you mean two weeks from when ATOS submit their findings to the DWP?

As for the delay in dealing with reconsiderations, you have to consider that there are two elements involved.

The first will be those cases that are submitted by ATOS for a first decision and those that are reconsiderations. There is a limited amount of time in a week that a decision maker can spend on both types. Their priority will almost always be the towards the first decision. What time is then available will be spent on reconsiderations. I doubt any first time claimants would be too happy to learn that their decisions are being delayed by others wanting a reconsideration. It is all to do with priorities.

There will always be a bigger backlog of reconsideration cases than first decision cases. Hence why it will take a lot longer.

Under the new system, the decision makers can start to breathe a little easier as they would argue that they have been given permission to take as long as they need before they make the 2nd decision - the pressure of getting the job done, out of the door and moving onto the next case is removed - targets will be extended!

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portly1 wrote: »

I would have to wait the additional weeks up to the 6 month date before a new claim could be submitted?

Yes, well to be more accurate, you could claim again but may not be entitled to any payments and the claim could be incorrectly closed down and refused at the outset.

It is most doubtful that a TS hearing will actually take place less than 26 weeks from the date of the decision notice. I wouldn't be prepared to wait upwards of a month or two or maybe more before the DWP get round to responding to an appeal which would trigger the start of the ESA payments to be made. The sooner that those payments start up again would be more important, in the knowledge that TS hearings are still delayed in some areas by up to a year!

I have seen appeal turn arounds from start to finish (incl reconsideration & tribunal) of 3 months, and quite often 4 months. You should note that where appeals are taking 12 months half of that time is taken up by reconsideration at DWP, so the Tribunal is only taking 6 months. And one of the reasons for tribunals taking so long is that they are waiting for DWP to respond to the appeals... This response time is now supposed to be down to 28 days, so we could start to see tribunals taking less than 6 months as the norm.

Presumably you mean two weeks from when ATOS submit their findings to the DWP?

Yes.

rogerblack wrote: »

'The amendments made by rule 27' - do not come into force till Oct 2014..

Pmlindyloos link does say that the DWP will only start keeping records of how they are achieveing the target of 28days from October 2014. So I guess the idea is that they will be working towards the target in the coming 12 months.

portly1

epitome wrote: »

I have seen appeal turn arounds from start to finish (incl reconsideration & tribunal) of 3 months, and quite often 4 months. You should note that where appeals are taking 12 months half of that time is taken up by reconsideration at DWP, so the Tribunal is only taking 6 months. And one of the reasons for tribunals taking so long is that they are waiting for DWP to respond to the appeals... This response time is now supposed to be down to 28 days, so we could start to see tribunals taking less than 6 months as the norm.

Listen I don't know where you live but what you state is not the norm.

I have appeals in the pipeline that were submitted to the DWP in May this year and I still haven't had a date for any of them as yet. Most of these cases have decision dates of March and April.

Even if any of the cases is heard tomorrow, it will be over the 6 month period.

If you are telling me that the current delays are down to the DWP in not preparing and submitting their submissions to the Tribunal Service and the DWP have had the appeals for nearly 6 months - what hope is there that they will be able to do it all in the space of 28 days? You are living in cuckoo land if you think that will happen.

What you do need is a quick turn round for the reconsideration then put your appeal in, then wait a minimum of a month before the DWP get round to putting their paperwork in, then you are in the queue for a hearing.

On current estimates in the Sutton area, it is taking up to 9 months before you get a date!