Help please

ohlookabee

I'm the sole executor and beneficiary of my aunts estate I've found over £16,000 now in Isas and saving accounts. She was paid state and a work pensions and housing benefit. As her savings exceed the amount for any benefits that they have to be paid back, how will that work? Will they take money until its under the 16,000 threshold or will they take it all?
Also what paperwork do I need to do? No probate was needed.
I'm not 100% sure there's not anymore income or debts as unfortunately the paperwork as well as other things were taken from her house after she died.
Can I just put all the money from the accounts in a separate bank account asi don't want to put it in the account my bills and wage come out of but obviously don't want to invest it until I know what is owed.

Thanks

nom_de_plume

I'm no expert but I guess any repayment would sensibly be no more than would take her savings to below the threshold. I suppose they could look at fines, etc. but fines are considered a punishment and the person to be punished would be your aunt so there's no mileage in that for them. You may need to fight that corner though and I do stress this is an opinion only and based upon nothing more than my thoughts.

On a more practical note, I would arrange the immediate redirection of her mail direct to you. You can download a form for this but you will need to go to a post office in person, armed with the death certificate to set it up.

Definitely keep your Aunt's savings separate from your own money at this stage and until you know what's what with finalizing any debts.

ohlookabee

I've done the redirection of mail and I think she had guaranteed pension credits but I could be wrong as the pension letters I do have although they are From 2011 mention it. I'm not sure if that would have changed though.

When do I do the r27 and is there other forms I have to do? The r27 looks very complicated

madbadrob

What you need to do is contact the DWP who will look at it all for you but basically they will look at when the deceased hit the threshold for not receiving HB and then work out how much overpayments there have been and ask for that back. So for example if she was over the threshold for the whole time she was claiming then they will ask for it all back however if she only went over it in the last 6 months of life say they will only request 6 months back and no it doesnt matter when the money drops below the threshold.

With regards to other debts you will need to put a notice in the London Gazetter and the local paper to where the deceased lived informing people that all debts to the estate should be notified to you as executor in the prescribed time.

The estates money should not be put into your own account and should be placed in an executors account

Rob

John_Pierpoint

ohlookabee wrote: »

No probate was needed.

Who says?

http://www.co-operative.coop/legalservices/Probate/what-is-probate/does-probate-apply-to-me/how-do-i-know-if-probate-is-required/

https://www.gov.uk/after-a-death

Have you already managed to transfer the assets of the deceased into your own name?

If not:

You should be able to open an account "the executor of xyz deceased..." based on the concept that you can pay in but not withdraw until you have been granted probate.

Good luck with DWP - I had a nightmare with them, based on the fact that they failed to act on my notification of the date of death and overpaid a month of attendance allowance, while on the other hand I returned an uncashed winter fuel allowance cheque and they lost it.

Old people being found to have over claimed benefits is not unusual, the citizens advice bureau might be able to point you in the right direction .

The London Gazette will take your advert for claimants when you have got probate, any creditors then have a couple of months to get in touch.
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/place-notice/personal-legal/deceased-estates
You need to do the same in a local paper.

Here is a simple guide to doing the task
http://simplify.co.uk/pdf/simplifydiyguide.pdf

Which do guides to sorting out the estates of the deceased.

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nom_de_plume

madbadrob wrote: »

What you need to do is contact the DWP who will look at it all for you but basically they will look at when the deceased hit the threshold for not receiving HB and then work out how much overpayments there have been and ask for that back. So for example if she was over the threshold for the whole time she was claiming then they will ask for it all back

Just thinking out loud here but if, for instance, someone started claiming housing benefit 20 years ago when they had savings of £15,999 (or £1 below whatever the savings limit was back then) and the following week added £5 to their savings would they really be expected to pay back 20 years worth of claims when the reality of the matter is, had they deferred their claim for a week, their savings would not have reached the threshold as the £5 would have been use to pay their rent?

A bit of an extreme example maybe but if this person had been claiming £100 a week in HB for £20 years that would add up to some £100,000 overpaid and all for the sake of a fiver!

If it is indeed the case that ALL the HB paid when the claimant was not entitled to claim has to be paid back, the OP needs to do some quick sums before taking on the executor-ship of the estate.

ohlookabee

The letter I found from aug 2011 says she started getting guaranteed pension credit and the info I found says that she is entitled to housing and council tax benefit despite having over the normal threshold of savings. I will ring dwp to confirm this and to make sure she was still in receipt of it when she died.

Also probate was never asked for by banks or savings account and my solicitor said its only needed if its asked for when it comes to bank accounts. There wa one bank with over 10k (made up of two isas and a saving account) and the lady just needed me to get a solicitors signature and to sign an oath but that was it and the money has been put directly into my bank account (which I will transfer to a diff one when I get one!) I asked about the executors account and she said as it was all going to me I didn't need too.

The remaining banks and savings most have already sent me cheques, which I have not put in the bank yet. Funerals done, gas/elec and water has been done.
I've done the my lost account thing and gone to all the banks in our city as she wouldn't have phone or Internet banked.

What is the London gazette & how/ why does it have to be done?

Also to fill in the r27 how far back will I have to get her bank statements from the banks ?

madbadrob

Nom using your example the answer is yes they would. This is a government department who work with very tight guidelines and they will attempt to obtain any overpayments no matter the situation. I know of a lady who is in her late 60's who failed to declare she was receiving a widows pension and has just been sent to jail for 28 days. The fact that this lady although not considered of unsound does have minimal alzheimers and didnt realise she had to declare the widows pension she started to receive 4 years ago. She now on release from prison has to find the money to repay the overpayment for the last 4 years.

Ohlook if all the accounts were with one ban you would have required probate and I think you should ask your solicitor again because the threshold for probate is 15k and you now need this has you have over this amount. I am not sure but I think HMRC will require probate granted for this very reason

Rob

madbadrob

ohlookabee wrote: »

The letter I found from aug 2011 says she started getting guaranteed pension credit and the info I found says that she is entitled to housing and council tax benefit despite having over the normal threshold of savings. I will ring dwp to confirm this and to make sure she was still in receipt of it when she died.

I would do that because it seems that she may well have been overpaid on this based on what you have found. To get the total entitlement income must be below 145.40 per week and the credit tops it up. If the claimant has more than 10k in savings the entitlement is reduced by £1 for every £500 pounds of savings over 10k. Therefore according to that and what you have said if the deceased hadnt declared her total savings there is a £32 pounds per week deduction from what she received.

A quick check of the housing benefit elligibilty suggests that you wont have overpayments on the housing benefit because the savings level before you cant get housing benefit is 16k also the guaranteed pension credit grants the deceased to automatic housing and concil tax benefit.

Rob

nom_de_plume

Based on that ^^ it still could be that Ohlookabee's aunt's estate is insolvent.
Do you know how much in benefits your Aunt received over the years (don't post it) and is that less than her savings?

Figures for R27 need to go back to 6th April this year and London Gazette advert is a recognized way of requesting any creditors to come forward.

John_Pierpoint

I will bow out of this discussion, because I have no practical experience of a situation involving over payments of benefits; though I was party to a set of probate account that featured £3.5k of over paid benefits going back to the social security department (more like £35k in today's money).

I also know of someone whose father a widower, re-mortgaged the family home for an income based on the theory he would be dead in 10 years. The reality was that he survived 25 years and ended up in sheltered social housing.
In his dotage he was no longer able to live it up with his skiing spree and there is only so much of benefits that can be spent watching day time TV.
This social housing organisation had a welfare officer. She tipped the wink to the children that dad was now accumulating savings and it would be a good idea to make sure his savings did not impinge onto his rights to benefits.
Naturally his children understood this advice and made sure father complied with it.;)