help re self employed nrp

Haddon201

HoneyNutLoop wrote: »

Haddon201 - if it's a limited company, i.e registered on companies house, then he is not self-employed from a taxation point of view. He is an employee of the limited company and likely a director of it. While you can request copies of the companies accounts for a small fee from companies house, it is likely the company qualifies for the small companies exemption and so it can file abbreviated accounts. These do not show a lot of info and will not show you how much dividends the company paid.

Under CSA3, this problem is resolved, as you would apply for an unearned income variation and the details would be sourced directly from HMRC. Under CSA2 it's an "income not taken into account" variation and under CSA2 the onus is placed on the applicant to demonstrate that a variation award is appropriate, not the CSA or the non-applicant. The difficulties with that are quite obvious, hence the change for CSA3.

thanks for that, he wont know I've requested copies of his accounts will he? to be honest I don't really care if he does anymore, I'm fed up of playing games and maybe if he knew how much I know he'd give up avoiding! :rotfl:

if you were in my position what would you do? my caseworker should be calling me in 3/4 weeks when his forms are back in, do I mention dividends? or do I close my case wait 12 weeks an reopen to get onto csa3?

Crellow4

There is no 13 week linking period with the 2012 scheme. I would request a Variation application to cover the dividends IF the NRP is a director. I would also encourage you to appeal if you are not satisfied with the liability.

PreludeForTimeFeelers

Crellow4 wrote: »

There is no 13 week linking period with the 2012 scheme. I would request a Variation application to cover the dividends IF the NRP is a director. I would also encourage you to appeal if you are not satisfied with the liability.

The CS2 case would have to be closed for 13 weeks before a 2012 case could be opened, as per the poster's understanding. If the case was closed and then reopened within 13 weeks then it would reopen on CS2.

Crellow4

That's contrary to the advice you gave on this thread https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4754280

PreludeForTimeFeelers

Crellow4 wrote: »

That's contrary to the advice you gave on this thread https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4754280

The key component there is the linked case - it's the linked case that has been opened on the 2012 system, taking the OP's case with it - one paying parent or receiving parent can't have cases on different systems. Reading between the lines it looks as though the OP there was on a CS1 case, and the PWC then opened a new case with a different NRP on the 2012 system - this then caused the OP's case to be taken onto the new system.

HoneyNutLoop

Haddon201 wrote: »

thanks for that, he wont know I've requested copies of his accounts will he? to be honest I don't really care if he does anymore, I'm fed up of playing games and maybe if he knew how much I know he'd give up avoiding! :rotfl:

if you were in my position what would you do? my caseworker should be calling me in 3/4 weeks when his forms are back in, do I mention dividends? or do I close my case wait 12 weeks an reopen to get onto csa3?

He won't know from company's house, but if you submit them to the CSA as evidence to support your variation application he is entitled yo see your evidence under the contest process.

You could mention dividends and ask to apply for a variation on that basis, but to put it bluntly, if you don't really know his situation and have no evidence to back up your claim, the likely outcome is that your application would be rejected. You have the right to appeal such a decision but that also may not change the outcome.

You could close your case and wait 13 weeks to reapply if you have two children or more between you and your ex. Currently 2012 scheme (CSA3) isn't accepting applications with just one child. That may be different in 3 months time though?

However, 2012 scheme bases the calculation on the last years filed tax returns or P60 info, unless income has changed by 25% or more. If he genuinely hasn't paid himself a lot from the company and is using a directors loan to get buy instead of wages, the outcome will be no different. They will be able to get details directly from HMRC about dividends if you apply for an unearned income variation, but if he didn't pay himself any dividends last tax year and you can't provide evidence that he did this year, you're still in the same place as CSA2.

Don't forget also that there is no lifestyle inconsistent with income variation with CSA 3 and they also plan to introduce charging for that scheme later next year.

Only you can decide which route you want to pursue, and it really is impossible to guess which will give you the best outcome.

pd001

HoneyNutLoop wrote: »

Don't forget also that there is no lifestyle inconsistent with income variation with CSA 3

Didnt know that!

Haddon201

HoneyNutLoop wrote: »

He won't know from company's house, but if you submit them to the CSA as evidence to support your variation application he is entitled yo see your evidence under the contest process.

You could mention dividends and ask to apply for a variation on that basis, but to put it bluntly, if you don't really know his situation and have no evidence to back up your claim, the likely outcome is that your application would be rejected. You have the right to appeal such a decision but that also may not change the outcome.

You could close your case and wait 13 weeks to reapply if you have two children or more between you and your ex. Currently 2012 scheme (CSA3) isn't accepting applications with just one child. That may be different in 3 months time though?

However, 2012 scheme bases the calculation on the last years filed tax returns or P60 info, unless income has changed by 25% or more. If he genuinely hasn't paid himself a lot from the company and is using a directors loan to get buy instead of wages, the outcome will be no different. They will be able to get details directly from HMRC about dividends if you apply for an unearned income variation, but if he didn't pay himself any dividends last tax year and you can't provide evidence that he did this year, you're still in the same place as CSA2.

Don't forget also that there is no lifestyle inconsistent with income variation with CSA 3 and they also plan to introduce charging for that scheme later next year.

Only you can decide which route you want to pursue, and it really is impossible to guess which will give you the best outcome.

I wont be able to move to csa3 then as we only have one child, and I may be better off trying to pursue the lifestyle inconsistency route, so far that has failed as his partner is supporting him... or so he says! not sure how a family of 4 can live day to day, pay a mortgage and go on 2 week holidays on 1 wage whilst running a company at a loss.

Its silly to me that nrps without a job have a £5 a week assessment and working ones can pay nothing! Id be happy with a £10 a week minimum payment regardless of company loss. :mad:

moan over! thank you all for your advice, its much appreciated

PreludeForTimeFeelers

Haddon201 wrote: »

I wont be able to move to csa3 then as we only have one child, and I may be better off trying to pursue the lifestyle inconsistency route, so far that has failed as his partner is supporting him... or so he says! not sure how a family of 4 can live day to day, pay a mortgage and go on 2 week holidays on 1 wage whilst running a company at a loss.

Its silly to me that nrps without a job have a £5 a week assessment and working ones can pay nothing! Id be happy with a £10 a week minimum payment regardless of company loss. :mad:

moan over! thank you all for your advice, its much appreciated

The 2012 scheme will be open to all new applications (including those cases with one child) from the end of next month.

HoneyNutLoop

PreludeForTimeFeelers wrote: »

The 2012 scheme will be open to all new applications (including those cases with one child) from the end of next month.

Is that definite now?