Swimbladder disease in goldfish - help!

bagpussbear

Can any experienced fish keepers help me please.

My orange oranda has got swimbladder disease. He has lost mass, barely eats, has difficulty keeping upright at times and spends his time on the bottom of the tank.

I have done all the usual things you should do such as regular water changes, filter cleaning, testing water weekly. I had some black beard algae 4 weeks back which I believe I have eradicated.

I bought an NT Labs swimbladder disease solution which i added 2 days ago, turned the water green, and I thought I might see an improvement but so far nothing, apart from a burp yesterday.

He shares his tank with a black moor who has grown a fair bit larger than him now, and I was sad to see the moor bullying him a little tonight, something he has never done.

I read about the trick of putting peas for food, but to be honest my fish can only eat 1 or 2 flakes at any given feeding time, so can't see he'd be able to eat anything pea wise, however small the bits.

Any experiences or advice please? Any success stories with the solutions or other ideas please as to what I should do to help my fish please?

Thank you so much.

Fosterdog

How big is the tank?
What filter are you using?
How often are you changing water and how much do you change?
How are you cleaning the filter?

bagpussbear

Thanks for your reply.

It's a 19L Fluval Spec tank, non-electronic filter, change 20% every 2-3 weeks.

I clean the filter under the tap, removing waste manually with my hands and small brush.

Had both fish since January this year, all ok except a gradual downhill of the oranda recently.

Fosterdog

Okay, this is going to sound harsh but you are slowly killing your fish.

A 19l tank is too small for any fish let alone goldfish, it is a myth that they should be kept in "bowls" they need a much bigger tank than a lot of other fish. I have a 3ft tank and still wouldn't consider it as a permanent tank for goldfish, maybe for a couple of years as they grow but they will need something bigger. Yours are more ornamental so don't grow as big as standard goldfish but still bigger than most people realise.

Goldfish produce more waste for their size than most other fish, a non electric filter is not going to keep their water clean enough. A filter should never be cleaned in tap water, the chemicals kill off the good bacteria the filter builds up to keep the tank stable. The filter should always be cleaned int some tank water as it's emptied.

Every 2-3 weeks is not often enough to change water, the smaller the tank the more water needs changing and the more often. As you have a sick fish you should probably be doing 80% change every day.

Do you add any de-chlorinator or tap safe type products to the water when you change it?

Have a look at http://forum.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk you will get lots of help on there with how to make your fishes life better.

Right now the completely inadequate tank and incorrect care/water quality/filtration is killing your fish, unless you get them into a bigger tank with a correct setup soon they will both be likely to die.

A goldfish will only grow to the size of it's tank, or at leash it's outer body will, it's internal organs will continue to grow and if the fish doesn't die from poor water quality first it will die from it's organs compacting in a too small body.

Some people think it's great that they've had a goldfish for two to five years when really they can live to be thirty + years old if they are properly cared for.

bagpussbear

Thanks very much fosterdog for that very helpful reply.

Before getting the fish, the information given via the net and even via the different pet shops seemed to differ, for instance one shop said 4 fish in a 19L would be fine.

I will take this advice, and fast - thank you.

One question, given I have added this disease 'medicine' to the tank now, would it be wise to give a few days before doing a water change, or just go ahead?

Edited to say: yes always use a declorinator with my water changes

Fosterdog

Right now water quality is your biggest issue, the medicine won't work unless you remove the cause of the problem first.

Bettie

I had success with salt baths and segregation. Afterwards I put my fish to live in a very large tub and he made a good recovery.

Froglet

bagpussbear wrote: »

Thanks very much fosterdog for that very helpful reply.

Before getting the fish, the information given via the net and even via the different pet shops seemed to differ, for instance one shop said 4 fish in a 19L would be fine.

I will take this advice, and fast - thank you.

One question, given I have added this disease 'medicine' to the tank now, would it be wise to give a few days before doing a water change, or just go ahead?

Edited to say: yes always use a declorinator with my water changes

Fosterdog is spot on.The number of people given such atrocious advice on the suitability of goldfish to these deathtrap size tanks is so upsetting to us in the fishkeeping world.

Best thing to do is lay your hands on the biggest storage tub you can find,80 to 100 litres would be ok.Fill with dechlorinated water,place your fish in there checking ther temperature is the same,then add the filter for aeration.It is going to take several weeks to get the filter mature and dealing with the poisonous waste your fish produce.So you will still need to do very regular water changes.

If you got a test kit and tested the water now i have no doubt the ammonia would be off the scale which is so damaging to every part of a fishes anatomy.No wonder he doesn't feel well.

Act fast and you might just save them

Froglet

Fosterdog wrote: »

Okay, this is going to sound harsh but you are slowly killing your fish.

A 19l tank is too small for any fish let alone goldfish, it is a myth that they should be kept in "bowls" they need a much bigger tank than a lot of other fish. I have a 3ft tank and still wouldn't consider it as a permanent tank for goldfish, maybe for a couple of years as they grow but they will need something bigger. Yours are more ornamental so don't grow as big as standard goldfish but still bigger than most people realise.

Goldfish produce more waste for their size than most other fish, a non electric filter is not going to keep their water clean enough. A filter should never be cleaned in tap water, the chemicals kill off the good bacteria the filter builds up to keep the tank stable. The filter should always be cleaned int some tank water as it's emptied.

Every 2-3 weeks is not often enough to change water, the smaller the tank the more water needs changing and the more often. As you have a sick fish you should probably be doing 80% change every day.

Do you add any de-chlorinator or tap safe type products to the water when you change it?

Have a look at http://forum.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk you will get lots of help on there with how to make your fishes life better.

Right now the completely inadequate tank and incorrect care/water quality/filtration is killing your fish, unless you get them into a bigger tank with a correct setup soon they will both be likely to die.

A goldfish will only grow to the size of it's tank, or at leash it's outer body will, it's internal organs will continue to grow and if the fish doesn't die from poor water quality first it will die from it's organs compacting in a too small body.

Some people think it's great that they've had a goldfish for two to five years when really they can live to be thirty + years old if they are properly cared for.

It is so sad isn't it how many people are still being given such dreadful advice by those who they think they can trust to get it right.Much better to go to the website you suggest,of which i am a member too,then you realise just how prevalent it is.Almost every day someone comes on with "help my fish are dying,i have done what the pet shop said..........." and it turns out they haven't a ruddy clue(the pet shop i mean).

One day fish will get the care and respect they deserve but i fear it won't be in my lifetime, sadly.Not until laws are passed making it illegal to give such duff advice and by forcing exams to be taken first when advising joe public.

bagpussbear

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone that took the time to respond.

I feel awful, as an animal lover I wanted to start off by doing all the 'right' things in my new venture with fishes, to keep them happy and healthy and enjoy them. Seems some of the advice was poor.

Off to get a much bigger tank tomorrow and take the helpful advice you have given in the hope I can save them.

Cheers everyone.

Froglet

Well done.I would take a look at the Practical Fishkeeping site tonight,we are a friendly bunch,never judgemental and have all the time in the world for people who are genuinely wanting to do the best by their fish and are willing to accept advice.We will guide you on every step you can take to help save your fish.

With the bigger tank you will need a better filter. Try and get them from a reputable dealer ,having read upoon what you need you will know if he is just trying to sell you something or is willing to help you with proper advice.

Even fancy goldfish,which yours are,need a really decent size tank,and long term it is better to get the correct size now than waste money keep having to upgrade.

Here are some very valuable tips and facts about what size tank to get http://forum.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/showthread.php?t=70001