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Debate House Prices


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Why are we building flats for foreigners?

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  • leveller2911
    leveller2911 Posts: 8,061 Forumite
    edited 28 September 2013 at 2:04PM
    gazter wrote: »
    We tend to have a pretty open economy, and in most cases
    hold to the notion that two entities can form a free contract between themselves
    without price control. Nothing wrong with that.


    But we already have a form of "price control" in the form of HTB schemes. Without these schemes most of the current rise in property prices(London aside) wouldn't have happend and would have continued to fall. Panic sets in when people see the value of the house they live in falls. Theres absolutely no logic to it ,just a feel rich factor.

    People can't have it both ways either we have a totally free market in which case property prices would form their own level dependant on the state of the economy at that time or we go the whole hog and limit price rises.

    This halfway house we currently have is not the answer and IMO neither is 100% mortgages.
  • But we already have a form of "price control" in the form of HTB schemes. Without these schemes most of the current rise in property prices(London aside) wouldn't have happend and would have continued to fall. Panic sets in when people see the value of the house they live in falls. Theres absolutely no logic to it ,just a feel rich factor.

    People can't have it both ways either we have a totally free market in which case property prices would form their own level dependant on the state of the economy at that time or we go the whole hog and limit price rises.

    This halfway house we currently have is not the answer and IMO neither is 100% mortgages.

    I simply don't see HTB as 'price control'. The price of houses remains the 'price two willing participants in a free market are willing to agree'.

    All HTB does is add a lot more people onto the 'list' of those now willing to buy a house. Extra demand does of course put up prices, but that is a secondary symptom. There is no direct 'control' going on.

    It is in some ways similar to the scrappage scheme for cars. A government funded initiative that enabled more people to get into the new car market. It may, also, have caused the prices of cars to go up slightly because dealers weren't so generous in their discounts.

    These specific flats are presumably unaffected by HTB as Malaysians probably don't qualify for it. Each flat is truly changing hands at market value. Nothing wrong with that.

    Incidentally, you can have price fixing and a free market. Just reduce VAT and all prices are fixed at x% below what they were yesterday. But prices will otherwise continue to change 'with the market' and would be expected to rise slightly in line with extra demand.
  • leveller2911
    leveller2911 Posts: 8,061 Forumite
    edited 28 September 2013 at 5:35PM
    I simply don't see HTB as 'price control'. The
    price of houses remains the 'price two willing participants in a free market are
    willing to agree'.


    Of course its price control/market manipulation, if one party can't afford to participate in the sale houses would remain unsold, espcially the FTB market. The price of houses would have to drop to stimulate sales so bringing in the schemes has allowed those sales to go through with the prices remaining high.

    The government shared equity scheme is no different, the fact is without it people wouldn't be in a position to buy , sales would stagnate,people who need to sell for various reasons would drop their asking prices.Its they way it was in past recession and downturns.


    Its manipulating the market and so its a form of price fixing.Will have to agree to disagree on this LM...
  • Of course its price control/market manipulation,...

    Its manipulating the market and so its a form of price fixing.Will have to agree to disagree on this LM...

    Market manipulation, yes. Price fixing, no.

    The extent to which HTB is aimed at FTB's, it would directly influence prices of starter homes. Still not price fixing, but obviously encouraging them to rise. This in turn would eventually filter through to 2nd/3rd houses etc. but would weaken all the time.

    Governments do market manipulation all the time. EEC/British development subsidies for industries. Green taxes on energy prices. VAT. Interest rates. Printing money.

    In the housing world, the 'Blair/Brown' re-launch of Housing Benefit from virtually nothing to £20 billion is one of the biggest market manipulations I've ever seen, but it didn't 'fix' prices.

  • In the housing world, the 'Blair/Brown' re-launch of Housing Benefit from virtually nothing to £20 billion is one of the biggest market manipulations I've ever seen, but it didn't 'fix' prices.

    Wasn't merely a reaction to a growing problem of demand and ever increasing price of provison. It was one way of attempting to resolve the problem. The tinkering of the current lot is putting a small brake on it, especially as interest rates are so low, for now. Question is how long it will be before the pads wear thin..

    I wonder if the bill would have kept rising, so dramatically, if they money had actually been directly invested in social house building?
    "If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future.".....

    "big business is parasitic, like a mosquito, whereas I prefer the lighter touch, like that of a butterfly. "A butterfly can suck honey from the flower without damaging it," "Arunachalam Muruganantham
  • CLAPTON
    CLAPTON Posts: 41,865 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    HB was based on the local 'average' rent.

    Anyone compete with a little arithmetic ability will realise the inevitable rise in rents that is built into that system ... think about it.
  • CLAPTON wrote: »
    HB was based on the local 'average' rent.

    Anyone compete with a little arithmetic ability will realise the inevitable rise in rents that is built into that system ... think about it.


    Is there really any need to be so patronising.. Another few minutes of my life I will never get back...........Thanks for that Clapton,really informative post.

    This quality of this forum really is scraping the barrel now.
  • CLAPTON
    CLAPTON Posts: 41,865 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Is there really any need to be so patronising.. Another few minutes of my life I will never get back...........Thanks for that Clapton,really informative post.

    This quality of this forum really is scraping the barrel now.



    truely bizarre........................
  • CLAPTON wrote: »
    truely bizarre........................


    Really?.............

    Quote:" Anyone compete with a little arithmetic ability will realise the inevitable rise in rents that is built into that system ... think about it".
  • CLAPTON
    CLAPTON Posts: 41,865 Forumite
    10,000 Posts Combo Breaker
    Really?.............

    Quote:" Anyone compete with a little arithmetic ability will realise the inevitable rise in rents that is built into that system ... think about it".



    yes indeed I did';
    and of course you have thought about it and have reflected how it was possible for all those clever civil servants and politicians didn't realise that which is obvious to you


    why are you so offended, are you a civil servant?
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