We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
Explain Fronting to me.
Prothet_of_Doom
Posts: 3,267 Forumite
in Motoring
Okay, This is the situation.
My wife and I own 3 cars, and have done, since 2009, when her old nursing friend sold my wife an old MX5, which we have insured on a classic policy. This does 1500 miles a year, My car does 15,000 a year, and I try to use my wife's car(s) at the weekend but her daily driver does about 5000 to 6000 miles a year.
Oldest son is 20, past his test 3 years ago and is not insured on any of the 3 due to being at university.
We changed my wife's daily driver, from a cavalier to a mini cooper (a very Early Oxford one circa 2001) in May this year, just as my daughter was learning to drive. The main reason for the change, was the unreliability of a car that was reaching the end of it's life and the rust. It costs a little more on the insurance.
We've insured DD on a marmalade provisional policy, and her test is mid october.
The intention was to insure her as a named driver, and let her use it whenever she wants to.
The car was bought not for the insurance friendly nature but because my wife used to have a yellow and black mini circa 1978, when we first got married, in the early 90's, called bonker, and this is the same colour. (I kid you not...A completely rational way of choosing a car apparently).
Interestingly I have had some quotes, for all 4 of us on the policy, with my wife as main driver, and It's double what the cavalier would have been :rotfl:
The issue I have is that my daughter mentioned getting a parking pass at college. Now this has alarm bells ringing.
For a start she has a free bus pass, but on one day she starts late and finishes early, so has to pay for a regular bus, so she's thinking that one day a week she could use the car.
The way I see it, having 3 cars in the family and a college car park pass is the sort of information that would allow an insurance company to weadle out of a claim.
To me it's clear that we've had 3 cars in the family for 4 years, and when we changed the car, we didn't picked a car for my wife, not my daughter. Had I been picking a car for DD it would have been a £500 micra 1.0 :T
In terms of Miles, I think that Wife will do most miles, still use it to around most days, daughter will be doing most of her miles with us in the car, son might borrow the car for his summer holiday, back from university, and I will still use it at the weekend.
Mx5 will still only come out on sunny days.
But Wife and Daughter don't get the issue at all. If wife wants daughter to drop her at work, and then go on to college then an insurance company will call it fronting.
Is there a solution other than mine, which is: you don't use it for college EVER?
Obviously paying more is an option, but I'm not happy to call daughter the Main Driver when it's not her car, and she won't be doing most miles.
My wife and I own 3 cars, and have done, since 2009, when her old nursing friend sold my wife an old MX5, which we have insured on a classic policy. This does 1500 miles a year, My car does 15,000 a year, and I try to use my wife's car(s) at the weekend but her daily driver does about 5000 to 6000 miles a year.
Oldest son is 20, past his test 3 years ago and is not insured on any of the 3 due to being at university.
We changed my wife's daily driver, from a cavalier to a mini cooper (a very Early Oxford one circa 2001) in May this year, just as my daughter was learning to drive. The main reason for the change, was the unreliability of a car that was reaching the end of it's life and the rust. It costs a little more on the insurance.
We've insured DD on a marmalade provisional policy, and her test is mid october.
The intention was to insure her as a named driver, and let her use it whenever she wants to.
The car was bought not for the insurance friendly nature but because my wife used to have a yellow and black mini circa 1978, when we first got married, in the early 90's, called bonker, and this is the same colour. (I kid you not...A completely rational way of choosing a car apparently).
Interestingly I have had some quotes, for all 4 of us on the policy, with my wife as main driver, and It's double what the cavalier would have been :rotfl:
The issue I have is that my daughter mentioned getting a parking pass at college. Now this has alarm bells ringing.
For a start she has a free bus pass, but on one day she starts late and finishes early, so has to pay for a regular bus, so she's thinking that one day a week she could use the car.
The way I see it, having 3 cars in the family and a college car park pass is the sort of information that would allow an insurance company to weadle out of a claim.
To me it's clear that we've had 3 cars in the family for 4 years, and when we changed the car, we didn't picked a car for my wife, not my daughter. Had I been picking a car for DD it would have been a £500 micra 1.0 :T
In terms of Miles, I think that Wife will do most miles, still use it to around most days, daughter will be doing most of her miles with us in the car, son might borrow the car for his summer holiday, back from university, and I will still use it at the weekend.
Mx5 will still only come out on sunny days.
But Wife and Daughter don't get the issue at all. If wife wants daughter to drop her at work, and then go on to college then an insurance company will call it fronting.
Is there a solution other than mine, which is: you don't use it for college EVER?
Obviously paying more is an option, but I'm not happy to call daughter the Main Driver when it's not her car, and she won't be doing most miles.
0
Comments
-
That's a bit more complex than the usual one. If it's essentially the wifes car, and the daughter uses it from time to time, it's fine. If the insurance company decide that the main driver is the daughter, then you'd have difficulty proving otherwise.
I think the fronting thing is mostly to avoid teenagers driving cars owned by their gran (and hasn't driven in 20 years) in order to get cheaper insurance, rather than to penalise multi-car households.
I'd imagine using it 1 day a week would be fine, even if the daughter is dropping wife off at work. But you're safest bet is to talk to the insurer and explain the driving pattern and see what they say. It's them you'd need to convince in the case of a disagreement anyway.0 -
Fronting, afaik, is where the main driver is not the one declared on the policy and therefore takes a financial advantage of the cheaper premiums afforded the named, main driver. It's essentially fraud. If what you're telling us is correct then there doesn't seem to be any fronting.0
-
Does your daughter really need a parking pass for one day a week, seems a waste to me. Surely there's some pay and display parking for visitors?0
-
An example..Son buys an Ford Escort Cosworth for £14,000 on HPI. Car Insurance is £2500 on his own, but £800 as a named driver.
Son puts Ford Escort Cosworth in Mums name, insures the car in Mums name, but is a named driver.
Son uses the car daily, Mum doesn't even know how to start the thing.
Clearer now?0 -
Sounds like something like admiral multi-car would be good for you if the prices are right.
If your daughter started to use the car more than your wife, then it might be time to change the policy & the main driver over.
Its good to ask first, as you usually find these things out after an accident.0 -
Alias_Omega wrote: »An example..
Clearer now?
Not everything is so black and white in insurance companies eyes. Anything they can do to get out of paying out, they will try.
I can see where OP is coming from, worse case scenario Mini gets nicked from the college car park on the one day DD uses it.
It's found smashed to bits days later with a college pass stuck to the windscreen. Insurance realises wife also has another car. Wouldn't look good to an insurance investigator.
OP just wants to make it clear to them that no fronting is happening.0 -
OddballJamie wrote: »Not everything is so black and white in insurance companies eyes. Anything they can do to get out of paying out, they will try.
I can see where OP is coming from, worse case scenario Mini gets nicked from the college car park on the one day DD uses it.
It's found smashed to bits days later with a college pass stuck to the windscreen. Insurance realises wife also has another car. Wouldn't look good to an insurance investigator.
OP just wants to make it clear to them that no fronting is happening.
There would not need to be the pass in the window, if the Insurer were suspicious of fronting they may (and do) check with colleges or employers to ask if the young driver has a pass for the car park0 -
There would not need to be the pass in the window, if the Insurer were suspicious of fronting they may (and do) check with colleges or employers to ask if the young driver has a pass for the car park
Interestingly the college need to see a licence and insurance document, before giving a pass.0 -
Alias_Omega wrote: »An example..
Clearer now?OddballJamie wrote: »Not everything is so black and white in insurance companies eyes. Anything they can do to get out of paying out, they will try.
, worse case scenario Mini gets nicked from the college car park on the one day DD uses it.
OP just wants to make it clear to them that no fronting is happening.
Wosrt case is MUCH worse. It would involve an accident.0 -
Wouldn't look good, correct, but that doesn't mean that they would find against the OP.OddballJamie wrote: »I can see where OP is coming from, worse case scenario Mini gets nicked from the college car park on the one day DD uses it.
It's found smashed to bits days later with a college pass stuck to the windscreen. Insurance realises wife also has another car. Wouldn't look good to an insurance investigator.
Presumably the daughter can demonstrate (e.g. bus tickets, oyster records, witnesses) that she uses the bus most days. Presumably the wife can demonstrate (e.g. permit for her work car park, witnesses) that she uses the car most days.
So I can imagine that the insurance company would want to investigate. But I don't think they'd be able to find anything wrong in this case if they did.0
This discussion has been closed.
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 352.8K Banking & Borrowing
- 253.8K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 454.7K Spending & Discounts
- 245.9K Work, Benefits & Business
- 601.9K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 177.7K Life & Family
- 259.8K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.7K Read-Only Boards