MSE News: We'll freeze energy prices, Ed Miliband tells Labour conference

posh*spice

davidgmmafan wrote: »

It is however possible that prices are increasing because demand is increasing.

Demand for energy has fallen in the UK by 25%.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/422679/Energy-use-down-by-25-as-Britons-switch-off-to-beat-price-rises

But yes LNG is a globally traded commodity -

But seriously don't we deserve some proper answers????

samizdat

posh*spice wrote: »

Why do you think they have? Most people instinctively know that something stinks here, don't they? Let's be honest nobody truly knows !!!!!! is going on - they only know that the cost of energy has doubled in a few years. Why hasn't the coalition done something? Expalined things better? They've had 3 years!

Expain this to me - why would Which? be saying that the consumer is being stiffed if they weren't?

Please point me to the Which report - I have tried googling for it, but no success.

The energy companies clearly have behaved badly. What mainly springs to mind is the huge multiplicity of tariffs designed to confuse the customer, doorstep sales practices and unauthorised switching.

It is also a fact that it is difficult to break in to the energy supply market, but this is just a consequence of the industry structure, which it is the government's responsibility to regulate or seek to alter.

However, as far as I can see, much of the critique of the utilities comes down to the perception that their prices have not tracked the wholesale cost of energy, and in particular that prices go up faster than they come down.

This may well be the case, but to my mind this again is just a matter of commercial decision-making adapted to market conditions. Any "excess" profits made can only amount to a few percent of the total energy bill.

If you don't agree, please state what percentage of your total gas and electricity bill you believe is the result of excessive profiteering or fat-cat pay.

The bigger picture is that the wholesale cost of energy has risen dramatically from the lows in the 1990s, and governments have also imposed additional costs on the industry, in pursuit of the green agenda and to subsidise the prices charged to those on low incomes. The cost of producing energy has simply gone up - it is not necessarily anyone's fault. The Earth's resources are being depleted, demand is rising, and our response to climate change is altering the cost structure of energy production.

Governments and political parties look set to continue this trend of loading costs onto the industry, and then trying to blame the energy suppliers for rising prices. This is deeply cynical and doomed to failure.

samizdat

cepheus wrote: »

What are the views of the critics of this scheme with regard to the present government underwriting mortgages and fuelling the housing bubble? Surely this is far more dangerous and just as interventionist?

Yes, this is madness. The only sensible policy would be to encourage more house-building, or for the government actually to build houses itself.

ollski

posh*spice wrote: »

Demand for energy has fallen in the UK by 25%.

That's the pesky public taking matters into their own hands and using other forms of heat and power like solar panels and log burners. Lets nationalise and price cap lumberjacking before it all gets out of hand.

Totality

Going back to Ed's speech. He said "freeze", right? Not "cap".

Calling for a cap during that speech would have been a much better idea...right?

cepheus

I understand it is a cap so prices could reduce if fuel prices do.

KTF

cepheus wrote: »

I understand it is a cap so prices could reduce if fuel prices do.

The word used was 'freeze':

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24213366

Cardew

posh*spice wrote: »

Let's be honest nobody truly knows !!!!!! is going on - they only know that the cost of energy has doubled in a few years.

Whilst I agree that we don't know what is going on, that statement about prices doubling in a few years could come straight out of the Daily mail.

Read this National statistics publication dated Sept 2013 for actual figures. Tables 2.2.1 onwards

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/quarterly-energy-prices-september-2013

Domestic electricity prices rose approx 32%(18% in real terms) between 2007 and 2012

Gas over the same period 58%(40% in real terms)

The tables show prices back to the period when gas and electricity was opened up to competition in the late 1990's. It is interesting to see how much prices dropped in the first years after privatisation. I wonder what would happen if the industry was re-nationalised

Incidentally electricity prices havn't even doubled(in cash terms let alone real terms) since 1997. Gas has!

International

[FONT=Arial,Arial][FONT=Arial,Arial]In August 2013 the UK price for petrol was ninth highest in the EU 15 at 136.9 pence per litre,

whilst the UK price for diesel was the highest in the EU 15 at 141.6 pence per litre.

For January to June 2013, UK industrial electricity prices for medium consumers including tax were the fifth highest in the EU 15, whilst industrial gas prices for medium consumers including tax were the lowest in the EU 15.

For January to June 2013, UK domestic gas and electricity prices, including tax, were lowest and fourth lowest respectively in the EU 15.

The pound depreciated against the euro by around 22 per cent between 2007 and 2011, but the euro depreciated against the pound by 8 per cent in 2012. In the first half of 2013 the pound depreciated by 6 per cent. This means that, between 2007 and 2011, and in the first
half of 2013, countries that use the euro will show increased prices when expressed in pounds sterling, but the converse is true for 2012.
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undaunted

samizdat wrote: »

Two issues have been conflated in the article.

On the one hand, there is a need to encourage investment in new electricity generating capacity, especially low-carbon/renewable capacity. Much of this would not be undertaken in a free market, because the cost to produce electricity from renewable sources is higher than from sources such as coal and gas. In order to ensure this investment takes place, it is necessary for governments to subsidise it by for example promising an enhanced and/or stable price.

QUOTE]

Do you believe the average customer cares about the carbon / renewable issues more than the price they pay? Governments, Greenpeace & the like may have a bee in their bonnets about it but I don't believe most customers give it a thought really - they are more worried about their day to day lives & the cost of living versus their incomes I would suggest

undaunted

cepheus wrote: »

Unless you have forgot capitalism failed in 2008, and the state had to bail it out. Most potential Labour voters have so little invested in such firms (including pensions) its better better to have cheaper bills. Thatchers shareholding democracy failed.

An interesting point I'm more inclined to agree with Cardews post than yours over all personally / politically but nevertheless there is some merit in what you say here.

The banks shareholders should have bailed them out not the tax payer - that's how capitalism is supposed to work. Otherwise we may as well have nationalised the banks

I don't think nationalisation is necessarily the answer personally but I do believe there has to be a balance between capitalism & co.s making reasonable profits and the customer being shafted for a product / service that is virtually essential. Haven't we in reality just got a cartel of the big 6 - all sitting comfortably at the table, nobody really believes that the current market is truly competitive do they?