Do School Trip Fees subsidise non-payers?

jackieblack

peachyprice wrote: »

Schools are not allowed to ask for compulsory payment for educational trips and they are not allowed to exclude children whose parents don't pay.

Only if the visit occurs wholly or mainly during school hours.
This doesn't apply if the visit takes place outside, or mainly outside of normal school hours, eg a residential visit during half term or an evening theatre visit

con1888

nodiscount wrote: »

I would be really annoyed about this if it happened to me. There are those on a low income who are not entitled to free school meals.

It might have changed now it was 13 years ago since I went that trip, not sure what the current rules are. I know my parents and several others were annoyed about it though as they felt the cost should be evenly spread, at the end of the day we all got the same experience. At high school it's a case of if you can't pay you can't go and I think primary should be the same.

Janepig

DD/DS's school never mention on their trip forms that any payment is voluntary. Never have. I'm not sure if that means that some parents don't pay, I'm not sure what percentage pay or not, part of me doesn't want to know, I'd rather think that we all coughed up. We do have a low percentage of children on FSM in their school though (about 6-7% I think, Welsh average is about 20%) so we get a very low amount of money per child of the LEA, we're about fourth from bottom in the county, and miss out on the little bonuses that get handed out.

Not forgetting that parents whose children do get FSM have got roughly £40 per month per child that they aren't shelling out, so maybe a bit of that could be saved for just such an eventuality as paying for a school trip. My two take a packed lunch to school because I can't be paying £80 a month for dinners (not to mention that DD has the hugest packed lunch imaginable, greedyguts as she is!).

There was a report out last week in Wales that the majority of households in "poverty" in Wales now are not those on benefits, but those in work.

Jx

Shassa

maman wrote: »

In schools in wealthy areas, parents will pay up happily and they probably have loads of extra funds as well from well-supported PTAs etc. In poorer areas, there will be some money available from the pupil premium (generated by FSM)element of the budget but that also covers all learning support too so hardly a bottomless pit.

You couldn't be more wrong about this. It tends to be schools in wealthy areas who don't have any money. These schools tend to have a very low percentage of children on FSM's so don't generate income for Pupil Premium. As someone mentioned earlier, there are loads of working parents out there who can't claim Tax Credits or FSM's but just manage to scrape by each month.

£8 for a trip involving a coach isn't bad actually. Coaches are so expensive now. Any child who doesn't pay and is entitled to FSM's can usually be subsidised from Pupil Premium Funding. Any parent who genuinely can't afford a trip can often be subsidised from a Discretionary Fund, I would recommend writing to the teacher who is running the trip.

Pupil Premium can be used for Curriculum Trips but things like skiing and fun trips, if you can't afford it you don't go.

Shassa

Janepig wrote: »

DD/DS's school never mention on their trip forms that any payment is voluntary. Never have. I'm not sure if that means that some parents don't pay, I'm not sure what percentage pay or not, part of me doesn't want to know, I'd rather think that we all coughed up. We do have a low percentage of children on FSM in their school though (about 6-7% I think, Welsh average is about 20%) so we get a very low amount of money per child of the LEA, we're about fourth from bottom in the county, and miss out on the little bonuses that get handed out.


Jx

They have to put "voluntary contribution" on letters. There should also be a copy of the schools' 'Charging & Remissions Policy' on their website.

Schools also have to put a statement on their website with information of what the Pupil Premium has been spent on.

Janepig

Shassa wrote: »

You couldn't be more wrong about this. It tends to be schools in wealthy areas who don't have any money. These schools tend to have a very low percentage of children on FSM's so don't generate income for Pupil Premium. As someone mentioned earlier, there are loads of working parents out there who can't claim Tax Credits or FSM's but just manage to scrape by each month.

DD/DS's school would probably be termed "better off" because of the low numbers on FSM, but the PTA have a permanent struggle to get helpers and to get parents involved. Christmas and Summer Fairs and the discos are well attended and because of the large number of children at the school they usually raise alot of money, but I know afew years ago when we had one of the days where the kids wear their own clothes and pay £1, the total donation from one class of 30 was 70p!!

Shassa wrote: »

They have to put "voluntary contribution" on letters. There should also be a copy of the schools' 'Charging & Remissions Policy' on their website.

Schools also have to put a statement on their website with information of what the Pupil Premium has been spent on.

Nope, none of that. Not sure if the rules are the same in Wales, or even if that is a legal requirement. Also, not all schools have websites. Our school's website is updated fairly infrequently. I'm aware that on here posters have said that you don't have to pay for trips related to the curriculum, but I've never really looked into it sufficiently. I'm content to pay what we're asked, it never seems extreme and I know coaches are expensive. It would just irk me if someone who has £40 per month "spare" didn't have to pay. Also, the PTA will occasionally subsidise coach fees (such as on the Christmas panto trip).

Jx

Seanymph

It's a bit sidewise - but relevant to the post above, I was in an affluent area when mine were little, and Chair of the PTA - and a couple of mums said to me they would rather just give a cheque once a year for a hundred pounds than have to be involved in fund raising and attending events...

Often in better off schools parents are time poor.

silvercar

How can they know who won't pay when they give out the cost? Of course you cant' therefore be subsidising those that haven't/can't pay!

They know. Either because they can estimate the percentage of pupils who generally don't contribute or for a small trip/ smaller school they know exactly who will and who won't contribute.

jalestine

Tbh, I think there's nothing wrong in questioning the cost. Altho' I don't know how much it is to hire a coach, traveling by coach can cost a few quid (mega-bus, nat express funfare) to go 200 miles, and then the coach is may not even be half-full. I'd imagine teachers won't pick a museum half-way across the country, so distance n fuel won't be an issue. The coach is driven by one person and the teachers are with the pupils on the trip, so I don't see that they need to hire a load of supply teachers. With such a large group of kids, it won't be the regular individual entry fee for the museum.

Maybe £8 is reasonable...I don't know really (...but I think I could arrange it cheaper, lol). If money's tight, it seems a lot when ur trying to cut back here n there.

Spendless

£8 does sound a lot to me to pay for a trip to a local museum. I'm sure I paid a lot less for a similar trip, but I am going back a few years (rising petrol costs?). Is the coach for many? There were between 65-85 kids in my two's school year so there was always enough kids to fill 2 medium/large coaches.

Dd's school though has capped all (day) school trips at £10 max for a while now. They've used money that was fund raised to pay for building work that was in the end funded by the council.