Anyone know 16 seater minibus rules?

JMW77

I would like to know if somebody had a job working 9 hours a day in a shop would they also be able to drive a 16 seater minibus for 4 hours in the evening making the their full working hours a total of 13, even if this is driving on a permit and not an official psv vehicle like private schools operate.

Its difficult to understand an official psv driver would have to follow working hours and driving hours rules, it seems strange to me how somebody can have a normal job and then get into a minibus and continue to drive ,even if the permit was legal surely they would have to follow some kind of working hours rules?

Seems to me they would be too tired to safely drive if people who do this as a career strictly would not be able to?

Any help appreciated .

MrsBillious

Are you ready?? It's complicated... A pcv driver is required by law to have a daily rest of 11 hours, meaning they can work for 13 hours a day! The can however, reduced this daily rest, to 9hours and increase their working day to 15hours, three times a week! As long as they record the shop work as "other work" , it is legal! But then I would expect them to take their 45 hour weekly rest after 6 24hour periods of work!!
From what you have put, they could be legal, as long as they keep a record, by means of tachographs or digi tacho card!

Iceweasel

Without knowing all the details on the face of it it should / could be within the rules.

GB rules have a maximum of 16 hours 'on duty' of which a max of 10 can be driving.

The 9 hours work you mention should be recorded on the tachograph as 'other work' or other duty'.

With 4 hours driving this gives an on duty day of 13 hours and still leaves a daily rest time of 11 hours which is the minimum allowed.

That's my interpretation of the rules as in the Tacho rule book:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/208095/rules-on-drivers-hours-and-tachographs-psvs-in-gb-and-europe.pdf

Mrs B, who beat me to the answer is dead right - it's complicated.

If you need more precise info contact the VOSA direct.

JMW77

The person i am talking about has a normal job in the daytime and drives school children around in the evening under a permit i believe, i just want to know if thats legal surely its a safety issue.

I myself am licensed officially and can only do so many hours i can't understand how someone no fully licensed can get away with it.

JMW77

They do not need to use tachos and make no records as far as i am aware.

GAZ237

JMW77 wrote: »

They do not need to use tachos and make no records as far as i am aware.

That don't make it legal.

If he has an accident, none of the children will be covered for any injuries.

Rather than ask on a forum, Ring the minibuses insurers to clarify.

paddedjohn

GAZ237 wrote: »

That don't make it legal.

If he has an accident, none of the children will be covered for any injuries.

Rather than ask on a forum, Ring the minibuses insurers to clarify.

The insurance would still pay out but they could have a case for claiming it back from the employer/driver.

alastairq

JMW77 wrote: »

They do not need to use tachos and make no records as far as i am aware.

As far as you are aware.

Which is very different from what might actually occur?

Iceweasel

This all depends on whether or not this is classed as a 'community bus' i.e. of benefit to the community.

Most school minibuses are ran on these kind of permits which exempt the drivers from the normal rules.

It sounds like a load of carp and it is a load of carp.

If the driver is an unpaid volunteer then there are no hours rules at all! :eek:

Sounds daft? See here, page 11:

http://www.dfcminibuses.co.uk/pdf/BVRLA%20Guide%20to%20Driving%20a%20Minibus%20081211.pdf

UK exemptions from the EU rules means loads of problems with minibuses, especially for 'worthy' groups such as Scouts, youth-clubs etc.

Imagine a 16 seater with 2 drivers going to the South of France for an adventure holiday towing a trailer of canoes!!!???

Such adventures often stop at Dover / Calais with the drivers and/or the vehicle failing to meet perhaps up to 3 of the rules that other countries work to.

I'm on the ferries a lot and I often see youngsters in tears having to return home.

They would be perfectly UK legal on a trip to the Lake District or Scotland though.

We often moan about the EU imposing crazy laws on us Brits, but we get away with a hell of a lot - as long as we stay on our little island.

Tilt

It also depends on when the driver passed their test. If after 1997 (I think), you may need a cat D1 entitlement.

As previously stated, there are exemptions to keeping driver's hours records if you are driving a 'community' as long as you are not getting paid.

This may help; http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_4011275.pdf

When you think about it, a passenger is still a passenger whether they are paying a fare or not. Therefore in my opinion, there should be NO exemptions to normal PCV driver's hours etc.

It's due to all the exemptions that there are so many grey areas.

JMW77

He does have a D1 on his licence ,but never uses tachos i just thought surely he cant work all day then go driving in the evening , a psv driver would have to declare other work on tacho and still be restricted to working hours .
He is not qualified so he seems to be able to drive as much as he wants and have a full time job ,which means the more qualified you are the less you are able to work makes no sense to me.