Loft renovation: fire regulations?

waveyjane

Hi Gurus!

The previous owners of our house did a loft conversion in about 2000. I think it was pretty poorly insulated though, and we'd like to get some heating in there, redecorate and re-do the stairs, which are very creaky and poorly made, and generally spruce it up.

This isn't really a loft conversion in the sense that it's already converted for daily use. We also don't (yet) intend the loft for being anything more than my study, but in doing some renovation of it, does anyone know if we'd need to have it comply with the fire regs I've been reading about here?

"Where your loft conversion forms a third storey, the structure needs to be separated from the rest of the house, and the walls, floor and doors given half-hour fire protection. This can be achieved using two layers of plasterboard and fire doors.

The means of escape in a fire is usually the main staircase, which must lead directly to an external door, so this too needs to be enclosed and given half-hour fire protection. This means that all doors to habitable rooms need to be fire doors. Hard-wired smoke alarms must also be added to each floor.

Where the staircase ends in an open plan room, the space can be fitted with a sprinkler system and a fire door separating the ground floor from the first floor level. Escape in the event of fire from the attic rooms can then be via a first floor window."

Thanks for any pointers.

Yorkie1

When you bought the house, did the sellers supply evidence that it complied with the Building Regs in force at the time?

Assuming not:

It sounds as though they may have done it on the cheap without any regard to B Regs. For example, are you sure that the joists have been strengthened - they're not designed for regular use other than light storage; do you know for sure that the internal roof structure wasn't altered; etc?

I wonder whether it's worth getting a company in to assess how much it would cost to bring it up to compliance. That would mean it can be safely used as proposed, and also would mean that when you eventually sell the house, it can be marketed with the additional room and no buyer / lender hassle about indemnity insurance.

waveyjane

Hi Yorkie,

You guessed right. We didn't get any evidence that it complied with the Building Regs in force at the time (and that wasn't flagged by the survey). So, I don't know if the roof structure was altered or what.

I think you're right - might be worth getting a quote for work to bring it up to regs while doing the renovation work we're thinking of. Hm. Potential can o'worms though, but hey - it's just money :beer:

cyclonebri1

I agree, most of the short cutting will be hidden from view, ie, they would have needed to increase the size of the rafters to give ventilation and strength, replaced or turned the purlins probably, and correctly insulated and vented over the angled roof.

It's along list and to bring it up to scratch is a bigger job than starting from scratch, :eek::eek:

But, it is perfectly possible if not likely that it has been done correctly.

You need to lift a section of floor, and open the ceiling in the area the purlin meets the wall to start with. ( mit may be possible to determine the thickness of the loft floor by taking measurement around the void where the stairs enter the upper floor.

For me, the stair case either complying to Bregs or not, is a clue to how well the job has been done.

waveyjane

"You need to lift a section of floor, and open the ceiling in the area the purlin meets the wall to start with."

OK just lifted a section of the floor on the landing where the stairs arrives in the loft. No insulation that I can see, but there's a separator board where the main floor starts so I can't see further than that. All looks pretty bodged up to me though.

So it seems I'm either to do some cosmetic sprucing up and kick the buildings regs can further down the road, or face the reality of compliance and what may well be a £30K job.

Sometimes I wish I'd just rented.

BTW: Am I right in thinking we could get some things regs compliant (eg insulation) but not others (eg fire protection)? Does a certificate for the work have to cover all or nothing? Just wondering if there might be a sort of "part compliant" situation that could take some of the pressure off when selling the house.

leveller2911

If you have the finances you need to carry out remedial work to bring the conversion up to regulations.Did you question the conversion when you were buying the house from the previous owners?, was it flagged up on the survey as a possible problem?

Peace of mind for one reason and you will have issues when you come to sell the house as the "conversion" will be picked up by most surveyors etc.

southcoastrgi

or remove the fixed staircase & replace it with a loft ladder, although if you sell you won't be able to sell it listing it with a loft conversion

Yorkie1

Whatever you do, don't contact the council unless you're sure that you're going to do the work to make it compliant with current regs. Once the council have been contacted, an indemnity insurance policy cannot ever be obtained.

cyclonebri1

waveyjane wrote: »

"You need to lift a section of floor, and open the ceiling in the area the purlin meets the wall to start with."

OK just lifted a section of the floor on the landing where the stairs arrives in the loft. No insulation that I can see, but there's a separator board where the main floor starts so I can't see further than that. All looks pretty bodged up to me though.

So it seems I'm either to do some cosmetic sprucing up and kick the buildings regs can further down the road, or face the reality of compliance and what may well be a £30K job.

Sometimes I wish I'd just rented.

BTW: Am I right in thinking we could get some things regs compliant (eg insulation) but not others (eg fire protection)? Does a certificate for the work have to cover all or nothing? Just wondering if there might be a sort of "part compliant" situation that could take some of the pressure off when selling the house.

As you have gone to that trouble take a look for this;

Across the staircase were the stairs meet the loft floor the timber the staircase bolts/screws to should be a tripled up section of the floor joist.

The joist that runs next to and parallel to the staircase should be a double.

Bare in mind these are correct new sizes, probably 9x2 and not 4x2, ie, not the size of the old ceiling timbers.

The above will give you some idea of the amount of structural work that is hidden in a proper loft conversion.

macman

waveyjane wrote: »

Hi Gurus!

The previous owners of our house did a loft conversion in about 2000. I think it was pretty poorly insulated though, and we'd like to get some heating in there, redecorate and re-do the stairs, which are very creaky and poorly made, and generally spruce it up.

This isn't really a loft conversion in the sense that it's already converted for daily use. We also don't (yet) intend the loft for being anything more than my study, but in doing some renovation of it, does anyone know if we'd need to have it comply with the fire regs I've been reading about here?

"Where your loft conversion forms a third storey, the structure needs to be separated from the rest of the house, and the walls, floor and doors given half-hour fire protection. This can be achieved using two layers of plasterboard and fire doors.

The means of escape in a fire is usually the main staircase, which must lead directly to an external door, so this too needs to be enclosed and given half-hour fire protection. This means that all doors to habitable rooms need to be fire doors. Hard-wired smoke alarms must also be added to each floor.

Where the staircase ends in an open plan room, the space can be fitted with a sprinkler system and a fire door separating the ground floor from the first floor level. Escape in the event of fire from the attic rooms can then be via a first floor window."

Thanks for any pointers.

Then it is living space and has to comply with all relevant Building Regs, which will include adequate fire protection and ventilation, proper fixed stair access, headroom (normally 2.3m across the whole area) etc -even if you only use it one day a year.
The above does not apply only if it is used for storage.
If the floor was not properly strengthened (usually by the insertion of steel RSJ's) to provide proper support then you'll effectively need to start from scratch and do it again properly with a proper floor. Normal loft floor joists will not take the loads imposed by using it as living space.
Was PP obtained (if not permitted development)?
Otherwise it can only be used for (and described as) storage space, should you sell.

waveyjane

"Across the staircase were the stairs meet the loft floor the timber the staircase bolts/screws to should be a tripled up section of the floor joist."

Can't see any evidence of that, although the stairs comes into a small landing area which I can't see past. I do get the distinct impression that none of this was done to any regs, and (because a couple of people asked) no, we did not see any certificate for the work, nor did the survey flag this as an issue. I think the estate agent was marketing the house as 3 beds though. Hm. But it was all over 10 years ago now.

I think we might be able to scrape about £20K for the work in a couple of years if we start saving now. I'd prefer to have a properly sorted living space, regardless of whether we sell the house or not really.

Thanks for all the great advice though! :T