How to avoid being scammed by fraudulent solicitors

G_M

Propertyfan wrote: »

....

My solicitor emailed me her company's full bank details - account number and sort code - early on in the conveyancing. I don't know if this is standard procedure but I recommend all vendors/buyers get these bank details so you know exactly where your fees are going. You can contact the bank if you have major concerns about your solicitor.

Misses the point.

It was not mi5tery's solicitor that was the fraud, it was the vendor's solicitor(mi5stery was buying).

So mi5stery's cash was sent in good faith, by his own solicitor, to the bank account of the seller's (fraudulent) solicitor who vanished with it.

ValHaller

Thanks for a very comprehensive post. I would only disagree with the following:

mi5tery wrote: »

4.Misc

2. Avoid any and all contact with the vendor directly - it should always be via your CS or EA.

It is often helpful to be in direct contact with the vendor for all kinds of reasons which are not appropriate to run through solicitors or even through the agent. Would you really have solicitors pass essages about when bin day is for example?

I would say that direct contact is another opportunity to feel any vibe that something is not right. The appropriate caution for direct contact is to take everything with a pinch of salt and anything which is important should be confirmed via the agent or via the solicitors as appropriate.

mi5tery

Propertyfan wrote: »

Thanks for the information, mi5tery. I'm sorry to hear of your experience. I hope you have success prosecuting the fraudulent vendor's solicitor.

Hiya,

If they catch the thief I do hope the Met/CPS prosecute - but that's nothing to do with me now (unless they need a witness having caught someone).

As for the second part of your message I think G_M hit the nail on the head - my issue was with the VS not CS in regards to dodgy bank account. Also, something to note: in order to transfer money one only needs a sort code and account number, it seems the "account name" is redundant, so it can be made up as it doesn't affect the money arriving! Crazy huh?

mi5tery

mi5tery

ValHaller wrote: »

Thanks for a very comprehensive post. I would only disagree with the following:

It is often helpful to be in direct contact with the vendor for all kinds of reasons which are not appropriate to run through solicitors or even through the agent. Would you really have solicitors pass messages about when bin day is for example?

I would say that direct contact is another opportunity to feel any vibe that something is not right. The appropriate caution for direct contact is to take everything with a pinch of salt and anything which is important should be confirmed via the agent or via the solicitors as appropriate.

Thanks ValHaller,

That's a fair point, I should have probably said "direct contact other than face-to-face", however I believe you to be more experienced than me on this matter. For me however, it was a nightmare having (tel) contact with the vendor (I wished it had never happened). Funnily enough the Mrs did ask me about bin day, and I checked the borough website...

mi5tery

rrtt

Better_Days wrote: »

MSE threads do show up on google searches, and you are already in page 3 on a google search for fraudulent solicitors.

That's absolutely brilliant!

rrtt

ValHaller wrote: »

Thanks for a very comprehensive post. I would only disagree with the following:



It is often helpful to be in direct contact with the vendor for all kinds of reasons which are not appropriate to run through solicitors or even through the agent. Would you really have solicitors pass essages about when bin day is for example?

I would say that direct contact is another opportunity to feel any vibe that something is not right. The appropriate caution for direct contact is to take everything with a pinch of salt and anything which is important should be confirmed via the agent or via the solicitors as appropriate.

That's all very well in some cases, but I'd urge extreme caution re anybody releasing their contact info, esp landline phone numbers, to some people who might end up abusing it. People need to make a careful individual assessment whether they can trust their vendors/buyers completely. This includes thinking about not just how the relationship is at the outset (most do start out pleasant and friendly!) but how it might be in future if things go wrong for whatever reason (people can end up becoming distinctly unpleasant or even downright abusive ...) Don't take anything for granted - a quiet, middle-class, academic-type vendor we thought would be fine, turned out to be one of the most manipulative, devious, and ultimately abusive people ever encountered!

Estate Agents aren't just salespeople, they're also there to act as professionals who are both facilitators and buffers between one 'side' and the other.

mi5tery

rrtt wrote: »

That's all very well in some cases, but I'd urge extreme caution re anybody releasing their contact info, esp landline phone numbers, to some people who might end up abusing it. People need to make a careful individual assessment whether they can trust their vendors/buyers completely. This includes thinking about not just how the relationship is at the outset (most do start out pleasant and friendly!) but how it might be in future if things go wrong for whatever reason (people can end up becoming distinctly unpleasant or even downright abusive ...) Don't take anything for granted - a quiet, middle-class, academic-type vendor we thought would be fine, turned out to be one of the most manipulative, devious, and ultimately abusive people ever encountered!

Estate Agents aren't just salespeople, they're also there to act as professionals who are both facilitators and buffers between one 'side' and the other.

Well said. Thinking about it in my scenario I asked all the small questions via the EA. It was on the day of completion that my CS asked me to call the vendor directly to arrange a viewing (EA who had been dealing with my case was off that day), to confirm all terms of the contract had been met. Until then I myself had decided I didn't want to directly contact the vendor, against better judgement and poor advice from CS I called the vendor. I regretted that I didn't follow my gut as what followed was a torrent of texts including well rather rude/not-nice messages.

EDIT: Seems this thread is now at the top of page 2 of Google search results for 'fraudulent solicitors'.

mi5tery

ValHaller

rrtt wrote: »

That's all very well in some cases, but I'd urge extreme caution re anybody releasing their contact info, esp landline phone numbers, to some people who might end up abusing it. People need to make a careful individual assessment whether they can trust their vendors/buyers completely. This includes thinking about not just how the relationship is at the outset (most do start out pleasant and friendly!) but how it might be in future if things go wrong for whatever reason (people can end up becoming distinctly unpleasant or even downright abusive ...) Don't take anything for granted - a quiet, middle-class, academic-type vendor we thought would be fine, turned out to be one of the most manipulative, devious, and ultimately abusive people ever encountered!

Estate Agents aren't just salespeople, they're also there to act as professionals who are both facilitators and buffers between one 'side' and the other.

Me, I would take the risk of a relationship going sour with a vendor as a small price to pay for seeing them in action and perhaps finding out about being scammed.

Certainly, as buyer, if a vendor started to appear as manipulative, devious or abusive, I would have no hesitation about putting a stop to it and I would welcome the opportunity to see the vendor in action even at the expense of having to scupper the deal. It would be preferable to a deal going through and leaving a nasty taste.

rrtt

ValHaller wrote: »

Me, I would take the risk of a relationship going sour with a vendor as a small price to pay for seeing them in action and perhaps finding out about being scammed.

Certainly, as buyer, if a vendor started to appear as manipulative, devious or abusive, I would have no hesitation about putting a stop to it and I would welcome the opportunity to see the vendor in action even at the expense of having to scupper the deal. It would be preferable to a deal going through and leaving a nasty taste.

I hear what you're saying, but I'm talking from the pov of personal security, which I consider an even bigger priority. If a buyer gives out a landline no. they can be traced to their home (unless ex-directory). One person I met (seller as it happened, so there's nothing you could do about that, but you can see how it might be for a buyer too) had an angry erstwhile buyer come round to her house, banging on the door shouting abuse etc. Granted the vast majority aren't like that, but then the vast majority aren't like the Mi5tery's seller/CS either, yet it happened...

Richard_Webster

my issue was with the VS not CS in regards to dodgy bank account.

Yes, but it is CS's job to check things like this and if didn't then he is probably negligent and you could recover from his indemnity insurers if you suffer loss. They then try to pursue VS.