old house: survey?

alanmilstein

teneighty wrote: »

I cannot comment on the Residential Property Surveyors Association mentioned above as I have never heard of them but if you employ a member of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors they have a requirement that every member must have a formal complaints procedure including membership of a scheme such as the Property Ombudsman which gives clients free access to independent expert arbitration. You also have the option to lodge a complaint with the RICS, which is a large professional organisation with offices in London and Coventry including a department of full time staff who just monitor surveyors conduct and handle client complaints. Finally all chartered surveyors have to maintain professional indemnity insurance to a minimum value of £250,000 to cover each claim.

How much more comeback do you want? This myth that surveyors are untouchable is nonsense and needs to be corrected. Maybe if more people took action against the rogue surveying companies it would improve standards across the sector.

My one nugget of advice that I have mentioned here many times is do not use the big national chains of surveying companies that are owned by the lenders and estate agents (I suspect this is the cause of Lord Baltimore's disillusionment). Go to a local independent Chartered Surveyor and if it is a special property, old, listed, or dilapidated etc. as this thread originally asked, an independent Chartered Building Surveyor

RPSA Surveyors are fully qualified specialist residential property surveyors. Unlike RICS surveyors, who tend to be generalist surveyors, RPSA members are specialists in residential property.
Most will offer you a Home Condition Survey. This is a complete survey that is as wide ranging in its' inspection as a level 3 Building/Structural Survey i.e. it's a "full" survey.
There are significant advantages in going this route such as:-
1. Home Condition Surveys, and the Surveyors carrying them out, are subject to regular auditing of their reports. This maintains quality standards and ensures that surveyors keep comprehensive records.
2. With a Home Condition Survey it is the survey report that carries the insurance, and not the individual surveyor. This means that, if a Surveyor retires, dies, or goes bust then the survey report is still covered by Professional Indemnity Insurance, i.e. you can make a claim against it in the event that the surveyor was negligent. This is not the case with an RICS Survey report. That is only covered by the individual surveyors insurance and, although he is supposed to continue offering cover for 6 years after ceasing to trade, many do not.

Many RPSA members are also member of RICS so the two organisations are not mutually exclusive.
What is most important, however, is that the house buyer chooses someone they can trust and work with, whether that be an RICS or an RPSA surveyor.

teneighty

RPSA Surveyors are fully qualified specialist residential property surveyors. Unlike RICS surveyors, who tend to be generalist surveyors, RPSA members are specialists in residential property.

Qualification? Just out of curiosity, how long does it take to get a "Diploma in Home Inspection"? I've tried to google it but no one seems to be running the course since the Home Information Packs were quite rightly put out of their misery.

AdrianC

Just to add in another little snippet of hearsay...

We've just been talking to some neighbours. The house immediately behind them is going through a sale at the mo. It's sat empty for a couple of years since a repo, and is unsurprisingly in need of quite a bit of work. The whole long back wall of the house and one side of the pitched roof backs right onto and is only visible from their garden. Out of north of 100 viewers, only single figures bothered to ask to see it. A surveyor was there yesterday. He didn't bother looking, either.

Lord_Baltimore

AdrianC wrote: »

Just to add in another little snippet of hearsay...

We've just been talking to some neighbours. The house immediately behind them is going through a sale at the mo. It's sat empty for a couple of years since a repo, and is unsurprisingly in need of quite a bit of work. The whole long back wall of the house and one side of the pitched roof backs right onto and is only visible from their garden. Out of north of 100 viewers, only single figures bothered to ask to see it. A surveyor was there yesterday. He didn't bother looking, either.

It beggar's belief. I used to be naive enough to believe that if a surveyor had inspected a property I could be pretty much assured I would be told of its potential problems. That is what I believed I was paying for. Surely, the failure to examine a substantial part of a house is not that which could be regarded as a proper survey?

I dunno, I suppose it was done with binnoculars or by holding a wet finger in the air .

Perhaps I expect too much for £500?

AdrianC

Lord_Baltimore wrote: »

It beggar's belief. I used to be naive enough to believe that if a surveyor had inspected a property I could be pretty much assured I would be told of its potential problems. That is what I believed I was paying for. Surely, the failure to examine a substantial part of a house is not that which could be regarded as a proper survey?

Particularly when the inside of that wall is visibly in poor condition - the whole lower third spotted with black mould.

I dunno, I suppose it was done with binnoculars or by holding a wet finger in the air .

<grin> Bins wouldn't even help...

Perhaps I expect too much for £500?

Clearly!

Lord_Baltimore

I'm not against the concept of surveys and don't mind paying for expertise but a lot of work needs to be done to ensure a customer gets VFM and usable guidance or the profession will lose its credibility.

alanmilstein

teneighty wrote: »

Qualification? Just out of curiosity, how long does it take to get a "Diploma in Home Inspection"? I've tried to google it but no one seems to be running the course since the Home Information Packs were quite rightly put out of their misery.

The answer is that it generally takes between 2 and 5 years and it is equivalent to a degree level qualification.
You're correct that no one is currently training the course (which is all connected with the 2004 Housing Act), but a new qualification is currently being finalised (and the RPSA is centrally involved in the design and implementation of it) that will, effectively, replace the old one.
The new Diploma in Residential Surveying is expected to be approved by all major surveying associations, trade bodies, and lenders (it's going through the assessment and approval process as we speak). It's development has been overseen by some of the most senior and respected surveyors in the country and will very much be a "fit for purpose" qualification.
For the first time we will have a well balanced qualification specifically for specialist residential surveyors, and, hopefully, a fresh start for a profession that, clearly, needs tidying up.

As I have said previously in this thread, I believe that there are many good surveyors around, but it is obvious that many consumers have had bad experiences. I don't think it's realistic to expect things to change overnight, but there is a recognition within the industry that we need to improve the products and public perception.
I have no personal interest other that that I, as an individual, believe that we should all get value for money when buying any goods or services. And, as a surveyor, I especially want that to happen in the world of residential surveying. The way I can help to achieve that is by working with the RPSA.
Believe it or not, we ARE the good guys. We believe that consumers SHOULD get better surveys, better value for money, and that all consumers should be made aware, in a free and fair market, of the options available to them. Yes, we hope that will result in increased business for our members. After all, we ARE their trade association. But, fundamentally we reckon that consumers deserve better than they're getting at the moment.

teneighty

The answer is that it generally takes between 2 and 5 years and it is equivalent to a degree level qualification.

Alan, would you like another go? The diploma course was considerably less than 2 years.

I'll give you a clue, it was counted in months not years. And as for it being equivalent to a degree? Maybe by RPSA but no one else.

Why do you keep pretending that the RPSA is comparable with the RICS when everyone in the business knows that it is a joke and was only set up by all the Home Inspectors who found themselves with no jobs when the Home Condition Report was dropped from the HIP scheme. It has only been around since 2010 having formerly been called Association of Home Information Pack Providers.

Isn't Google great?

alanmilstein

teneighty wrote: »

Isn't Google great?

Yes, but not always accurate!

teneighty

Yes, but not always accurate!

So which parts have I got wrong? I was very careful to double check everything via reliable sources.

I think it is important that people are given all the facts so that they can make an informed decision when engaging a surveyor and the Residential Property Surveyors Association is a very poor imitation of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors.

Do clients want a former care home manager or taxi driver who went on a 12 month course to learn how to put a Home Information Pack together or do they want a professionally qualified Chartered Surveyor who has undertaken a minimum 5 years rigorous training and is bound by the most stringent professional standards laid down by royal charter?

I'm not saying the latter are infallible and a small minority leave a lot to be desired but for now a Chartered Surveyor remains the only legitimate choice, in my humble opinion.