JSA and a Sick(Fit) Note

JS477

According to Hoban of the DWP you can claim JSA even if you have a sick (fit) note. How does that work then if you turn up at your JCP office with a sick (fit) note for say 8 weeks and tell them that you want to claim JSA; because I thought you had to be available for work if you were claiming JSA but if you're signed off sick for say 8 weeks how can you be available for work and be actively seeking work?

pmlindyloo

JS477 wrote: »

According to Hoban of the DWP you can claim JSA even if you have a sick (fit) note. How does that work then if you turn up at your JCP office with a sick (fit) note for say 8 weeks and tell them that you want to claim JSA; because I thought you had to be available for work if you were claiming JSA but if you're signed off sick for say 8 weeks how can you be available for work and be actively seeking work?

This all about something that hasn't happened yet .

At the moment if you are told that you are not entitled to ESA you can appeal the decision and be paid the assessment rate of ESA whilst that appeal is going through.

What has been proposed (and apparently starts in October this year) is that before an appeal can be lodged a reconsideration by the DWP has to be made. During this time you will not be paid ESA but can claim JSA instead (hence having a fit note and having to claim JSA)

Personally I do not think this will happen. If you think about it logically no money will be saved as you will be receiving JSA instead.

'They' are saying that it is to save money by the appeal not having to go to court. Fair enough. If the reconsideration is done quickly (before the job seeking aspect of JSA 'kicks' in) then if all went smoothly then it wouldn't be a problem.

However, as we all know there are often 'hold ups' in the system so someone could be without any money for some time.

A ridiculous idea, in my opinion, and one that makes no sense.

Why not do the reconsideration and still pay the assessment rate whilst doing it? - would be a much smoother transition.

I cannot see the reasoning behind this.

If someone is still found fit to work after the reconsideration then they would apply for JSA instead.

PS Think this should be in the DT forum!

BurnleyBob

Well, the reasoning behind it is obvious - it's to discourage people from appealing.

schrodie

pmlindyloo wrote: »

What has been proposed (and apparently starts in October this year) is that before an appeal can be lodged a reconsideration by the DWP has to be made. During this time you will not be paid ESA but can claim JSA instead (hence having a fit note and having to claim JSA)

To make it more of a Benefits type question, is it currently the case that you cannot claim JSA if you produce a sicknote because you have to be available for work or be actively seeking work. In other words are the rules changing in October to allow people who produce a fit/sick note to be able claim JSA?

jacques_chirac

schrodie wrote: »

To make it more of a Benefits type question, is it currently the case that you cannot claim JSA if you produce a sicknote because you have to be available for work or be actively seeking work. In other words are the rules changing in October to allow people who produce a fit/sick note to be able claim JSA?

If the DWP find you fit for work that overrides an existing sick note. However, if you then produced a new note stating your condition had worsened (or that you had a different ailment), you would need to go through the ESA WCA again.

dookar

you can be treated as capable of work for 2 periods of up to 14 days

schrodie

jacques_chirac wrote: »

If the DWP find you fit for work that overrides an existing sick note. However, if you then produced a new note stating your condition had worsened (or that you had a different ailment), you would need to go through the ESA WCA again.

So the rules are changing in October to state that if the DWP find you fit for work via the WCA and you are awaiting a reconsideration (which will hopefully come through before you die) then you can claim JSA if you produce a sicknote. But currently you cannot claim JSA if you go into the JCP office with a sicknote, you have to claim ESA instead.

rogerblack

i disagree with this being moved to DT - if such an action is contemplated - this is an important benefits matter that will affect many.

schrodie wrote: »

So the rules are changing in October to state that if the DWP find you fit for work via the WCA and you are awaiting a reconsideration (which will hopefully come through before you die) then you can claim JSA if you produce a sicknote. But currently you cannot claim JSA if you go into the JCP office with a sicknote, you have to claim ESA instead.

This is not the case.

As I understand it - nothing changes with regards to this.
The DWPs determination of fitness overrides an existing sicknote.
In principle, if you go and claim JSA, and say 'my doctor signed me off for 3 months 1 month ago' on the back of an ESA refusal - the JSA people should say 'that doesn't matter to us, you can claim JSA anyway'.

In practice, this is not always happening, and they might tell you to reclaim ESA. You should be helped to apply for JSA, perhaps with the help of a disability adviser with a reduced job seekers agreement.

If you go in with a fresh sicknote (to simplify things for the same condition), then you are not eligible for JSA, and will not be eligible under the new scheme.

Hoban mentioned that hardship payments can be claimed.

In principle, for many, this may be true, if the proper procedures are followed, and everyone agrees.

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch35.pdf

Hardship payments are not usually payable to people who just choose not to comply with the JSA requirements.

On who is a member of a vulnerable group, and entitled to hardship payments even though they are not actively seeking employment: (neglecting for the moment single parents, and others who may be entitled for other reasons)

35070 A claimant should be treated as a member of a vulnerable group if they or their partner have a long-term medical condition
and
1.that condition restricts their functional capacity to carry out ordinary
activities because of physical impairment
and
2. that condition has lasted or is expected to last at least 26 weeks
and
3. the claimant or partner’s health would decline more than that of a normal healthy adult within two weeks of the DM’s decision
and
4.the person with the medical condition would suffer hardship if JSA is not paid

This has a number of issues. Assuming everything is done leniently.
You are not in hardship if you have any savings whatsoever.
A new condition that has caused an application for JSA will normally be 13 weeks ago. If you've been promptly rejected for ESA, and your condition is expected not to improve for another 10 weeks - you will not be entitled to hardship payments.
As to 'will deteriorate more than a normal person' - I don't know where to start.

Then - the real problems arise.
If the decisionmaker is not intending to be lenient.
Part of the evidence they are supposed to look at is listed as recent determinations of incapacity.
The problems for someone just denied ESA are obvious, if you have recently been assessed as 'able to carry out physical activities' while your doctor has signed you off for X, will a sicknote for the same condition, in the face of an ESA report saying the opposite have any weight in this decision.

(People entitled to any rate of DLAor PIP are entitled to the disability premium of JSA, so are seperately classed as a vulnerable group, as are some lone parents and others, mental conditions are mentioned seperately)

schrodie

Hoban stated when questioned by Shiela Gilmore on this matter Here that:-

During the mandatory reconsideration phase, when someone is fit for work and not in work, they will be entitled to jobseeker’s allowance. I accept that someone seeking a reconsideration is likely to protest to the jobcentre that they are not fit for work. However, that does not rule out entitlement to jobseeker’s allowance. That is the case even where the claimant presents a fit note. Disability employment advisers, trained by specialist staff from the Department, will work with those who identify themselves as having a health condition or disability. They will take into account individual circumstances, including any advice given by the claimant’s doctor, and will consider placing limitations on a client’s availability or modifying their conditionality. There is nothing new about this.

The last sentence is informative. Whether this will happen in practice throughout the JCP network is a different matter!