o2 and defaults

shaunq

Hi all

As many of you will be aware there is no shortage of people who feel that they have been dealth with by o2 in a terrible manner regarding defaults. I and many others on here, CAG, O2 support etc etc have all had similar experiences.
The general theme seems to be:
final bill at end of contract somehow not paid
o2 do not contact customer regarding debt
Customer checks credit file later and finds default
o2 insist they contacted customer

Often, and certainly in my case these defaults are historic and for piddling amounts. The result is that a small debt which the customer is not aware of has a huge and disproportionate effect on their future credit finding abilities (i.e. my 2007 £63 debt meant I was excluded from certain mortgage providers).

I was angered but not surprised to see recent posts on here indicating that o2 are still continuing in this paractice.

I took my initial complaint to the ombudsman and ICO. The ombudsman said that o2 didn't have to prove their claims at contacting me and the default was upheld. On reading about the ongoing problems here I contacted them again to stress my concerns that o2 are behaving in am outrageous manner, having their cake and eating it (acting as lenders under CCA without any of the obligations) and that given the similarities in customers' stories it suggests a systemic problem (i.e., they are lying or their records are inaccurate). The ombudsman informed me that if they receive enough complaints about a certain company which indicate there could be a systemic problem then they can then raise this with the company and investigate them.

Now my default thankfully expires next week (6 ridiculous years) but if anything i'm more fired up about this than ever. Can I ask anyone on here with a similar experience at the hands of o2 (or in fact any of the other mobile companies who behave this way) to contact the Ombudsman and ensure that you highlight your impression this is an institutional problem with this company.

Thanks

Shaun

matttye

Like you, I've read many stories about defaults filed in this manner by O2 but also other mobile networks.

I have an O2 default but mine is fully justified.

Steven_Elliott

iv got one for 48 pounds which is a major pain

carlazi

Hi,

I had a similar problem with O2. I was extremely frustrated by them and in the end contacted the CEO. His PA got back to me very quickly and had the default removed. They made it clear that this was because of the small amount and under normal circumstances they wouldn't do it.

The key to this company is to complain to the top. If enough people waste the time of the CEO and his PA's then something will change because that will cost the company serious money and time.

Buzby

O2 did force you to agree to their terms - neither does any network. If people voted with their wallets and refused to take a contract the situation would rapidly change. I will not have a contract for those reasons - if others do, then they either agree to the terms or do so blindly.

As to the points you raised. The defaults are automated, and if you do not pay within the relevant timeframe late payments continue to roll over until the contract is eventually terminated with a default. The last payment may not get paid because the customer forgets there are charges paid in arrears - even if they did not cancel their DD early, they must ensure the payment is either taken or they arrange for settlement. There is no mitigating circumstances if a DD is not taken, the buck stops with the consumer.

There is no obligation on the network to chase the consumer to pay. It might be courteous to do so - but hardly news if they do not. Again, as it is the consumer failing in their duty to pay as agreed - the responsibility is hard to argue.

As you discovered, the defaults are valid and unarguable. You err is saying they are lenders under the CCA. Wrong! They loan you nothing - the bill must be settled monthly, and it is only the minimum term that can lead to large amounts should the consumer not pay as agreed.

Because there is no CCA, there is no requirement for a formal Default notification. You need to remember these defaults have been driven by the CRA's who wish to ensure their databases are used by commercial interests. By giving networks the ability to assess the credit worthiness of the applicant at the application stage, they insist on being told when the customer departs from the agreed payment plan.

If you don't agree to this, you opt for PAYG and avoid t completely and have no risk. It isn't rocket science.

Steven_Elliott

?how much was the default u had removed ? what it under £50 ?

carlazi

yeah it was for the joke amount of £13. I got turned down for a mortgage just before the market picked up and would have made a nice little profit.....

richierich007

a agree with buzby on this 1 , I was going to post something similar myself .. I always let the taking party to close the dd then confirm it myself at the bank , just done it myself last year with o2 no probs
really feel for a £13 default .. I would try ad write them a human letter if poss .. u just never know

shaunq

I find the heterogeneous nature of their replies to be frustrating also, how they can agree to remove someone's as a gesture of goodwill because it's £13 but not someone else's is wrong and against everything they trumpet in their emails on the issue. Buzby I do hear and understand what you say but it doesn't change the fact that they lie. Whether they are obliged to or not under CCA, they say they send final bill and reminder emails/letters etc and they didn't. That is clearly wrong. I've learned my lesson - they can't be trusted to act in a manner which is fair and responsible. You may have been aware of that already, maybe I was naive. Regardless they do act in a manner unlike many other companies and the end result is consumers suffer disproportionately.

Buzby

Saying they 'lie' is an emotive term - can you prove they did not? Non receipt is no proof of this. I don't want to come across as an apologist for the networks, but since I wouldn't trust them to tie their corporate shoelaces correctly - why is there an amazement when something goes wrong?

The customer is aware money is/will be owed - the fact it doesn't get paid therefore means there will be issues down the line. Trying to shift this blame on to anyone but the person who was responsible for it won't get much sympathy these days - there is no loyalty in either direction, so why expect it? It'll only mean a disappointment.

By refusing to play their game gives you the greatest protection, and saves unjustified pariah status should you make the slightest mistake. As for lenders treating these automated defaults as if they were an officially sanctioned Court CCJ - that's an argument for a different day.

Anoneemoose

I used to work for Orange and dealt with similar queries. The outstanding balance is usually from the final bill which a lot of people make the mistake of not paying by cancelling the DD.

Also, the systems that the networks use to send out the paperwork, do so automatically and in the majority of cases I dealt with, I could see when said letters were despatched. Orange systems used to send out reminder letters and I imagine the other networks would be the same. However, irrespective of this, you will find it is part of the terms you agreed to that you will pay all balances when due. It really is irrelevant whether they send a reminder to you (although I am sure they probably will have done) - it is your responsibility to make sure your account is settled. I do agree though that in the majority of cases it is for a relatively small amount and b***er in that respect but I don't believe they are actually doing anything wrong.