Highview Parking - Charge Notice - Help!

Dancing_Queen

We have received a charge notice and we don't know how far to dispute it / if we should pay in the 14 days for the reduced rate.
We parked in a retail park, and outstayed our welcome unknowingly. Having been back there are signs for two hours, but we were apparently 3h 23. They have photographs of the car to support this. Although we didn't notice the time when we were there.
We went into all 4 shops in the park, spent money in 3, but only have immediate receipts for 1 (over £60). McDonalds, Decathlon & Hobbycraft all received money from us, with a look in Argos for an item, but no money spent.
With two children under 4 it was a challenge to get them fed / toileted / co-erced to go round the various shops in the time we managed, let alone in less.
We think it is unreasonable to try to extract £75 for our visit, especially given that we did spend money there. The local mall charges £6 for up to 4 hours.
I have downloaded the template, and starting to customise, but could do with some second opinions. Thank you

Coupon-mad

Don't use the old template you may have got from an old article.

Here you go, this is what to do:

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?p=62827554

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=82727&st=0&gopid=862300&

...and attach copies of the receipts you do have and ask them to cancel it because the driver & passengers were genuine customers.

And complain to the Retail Park Management at the same time, with copy receipts.

POPLA will get it cancelled for you at second stage appeal, if you don't succeed with the above. So read threads about POPLA appeal wording as it's a different ball game.

Dancing_Queen

Thank you for your advice. I am not sure of the date of the template, but did wonder if they see so many they may well fire off their own standard letter.
I was writing the letter under the unreasonable charges principle, as 4 hours is just £6 in a nearby mall. But mainly I was not sure that POPLA would support my claim as we did overstay but unknowingly and as genuine customers.
I did crash out a verbatim course of events, including nappy changes..lol. but did wonder how much that would be incriminating or simply dismissed.
Perhaps it would be best to keep it simple as 'the driver did not see the sign' 'as a family with young children the time taken was longer than anticipated' 'the family spent money in the various shops' etc.

The_Slithy_Tove

Mitigating circumstances (like nappy changes) will ALWAYS fail. Not so important with the PPC, where any appeal is likely to fail, but NEVER use mitigating circumstances at POPLA.

Umkomaas

You can tell the PPC anything - nothing will make any difference, it will be rejected. The main purpose of the first stage appeal to the PPC (given that it will rarely result in a cancellation), is to obtain a POPLA code, to which you are entitled should your appeal be rejected.

A number of PPCs are running scared of POPLA and it seems that some first stage appeals that are of a 'legal/technical' nature can result in the PPC sensing it is forum-assisted and dragging their heels in issuing a code, as a POPLA defeat is likely.

So to avoid this you could give them a full 'sob story' (mitigation) about prams, feeding, nappies/toilets and the like and they are likely to assume you'll repeat the same story to POPLA (if you do, you'll lose) and they will be falling over themselves to send you a code.

But, of course, you won't be giving POPLA any pram-yam, you'll be hitting the PPC hard with a full legal/technical challenge (make sure absolutely you let us see your POPLA draft, no going it alone, before sending it off).

It's all a game of chess with the PPCs

Get back when you get your POPLA code.

HTH

Dancing_Queen

Have taken out the pram-yam.. but draft so far;

You issued me with a parking ticket on xx/xx/xxxx and although not on the Parking on Private Land Appeals list of grounds for appeal I believe the ticket was unfairly issued and I will not be paying your demand for payment for the following reasons:

• I was not the driver of the vehicle
Although I am the registered keeper of the vehicle, I was not the driver of the vehicle at the time you are stating. I am not required to and will not provide details of the driver at the time you state the car was in the car park.

• Appropriate Signage
The driver was unaware of the apparent 2 hour limit, so, as I am merely the registered keeper of this vehicle, I conclude that your signage must have been wholly inadequate.

• There was no loss of business
As a free to park car park there would be no revenue generated by a ticket machine, and money was also spent in the stores the car park serves.

• The fee is disproportionate
I also would say that this charge is a disproportionate penalty, which is unenforceable in law. According to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations, parking charges on private land must not exceed the cost to the landowner during the period the motorist is parked there. In this case, the £75 charge you are asking for far exceeds the cost to the landowner of £0, as the car park operates as free to park and shop.

According to the Citizen's Advice Bureau, this charge should be reasonable and in line with the loss suffered by the business

As an example of a popular local car park, according to their website, the xxx in xxxx charges a fee of just £6 for a period of up to 4 hours which the stay would have fallen into. If the car was parked in the xxxxx at their 24 hour rate of £20, in order to incur the level of charge you are requesting, it would have had to stay there for nearly 4 days!!!

• The driver and passengers were genuine customers
Money was spent in three of the four stores. A receipt can be provided for £67.05 in xxxx. On further investigation it should be possible to prove purchases were made in xxx and xxxx as well.

Some time was also spent looking at items in xxxx although in this case no purchase was made. However, should the need arise, it should also be possible to prove time was spent in the store due to the nature of the visit with two small children.

• Two hours would be insufficient time with small children
The visit by the occupants of the car including a 14 month old child and a 3 year old led to additional activities other than shopping. Taking longer to eat meals, nappy changes, toilet breaks, negotiating the length of the car park safely, the use of a pushchair, to name but a few.


If you reject my appeal I want to know whether the charge is supposed to be for breach of contract or trespass and how exactly is the amount arrived at? I will also require a POPLA code of course.

If you choose to pursue me please be aware that I will not enter into any correspondence and this will be the only letter you will receive from me until you answer the specific points raised in my letter.

Any more tips? Thanks

Umkomaas

See if others agree with me, but for a first stage appeal to the PPC this is too detailed and technical/legal; it won't get you a cancellation, so why bother. This stuff is for POPLA.

Give the PPC the pram-yam; they'll think you're a bit of a pushover and more than likely hand you the POPLA code on a plate without hesitation; then you're in business and on the road to getting this cancelled via a forum-assisted POPLA appeal.

Dancing_Queen

Thank you, wasn't sure if the letter was too soft or not.. some of them on here are amazing!
I was wondering about phoning the property management company to see if they would cancel it for the above reasons, then emailing/writing a confirmation/complaint to both organisations as backup. I see some people have had success with this too.

Umkomaas

Dancing_Queen wrote: »

Thank you, wasn't sure if the letter was too soft or not.. some of them on here are amazing!
I was wondering about phoning the property management company to see if they would cancel it for the above reasons, then emailing/writing a confirmation/complaint to both organisations as backup. I see some people have had success with this too.

No harm in trying - just a phone call/email may do the job for you; it seems to be working in some cases of late. Even if it doesn't work for you, it will add to the pressure on the landowner and emphasise the hassle the PPC's activities are visiting on them. May not help you in this case, but may provide the additional weight to help others, possibly even getting the landowner to show the PPC precisely where the car park exit is located!

Buzby

If this was a Scottish site - you don't want to respond at all.

Umkomaas

Buzby wrote: »

If this was a Scottish site - you don't want to respond at all.

Was it in Scotland?????

Sorry, must have missed that somewhere. OP - can you please confirm urgently, as advice will be different.