Employing a cleaner.

persa

You don't need to be self-employed to have a UTR. You need a UTR to fill out a tax return, but people need to fill out tax returns for various reasons - maybe they're higher rate taxpayers and have to declare their interest income. Maybe they were self-employed once, many moons ago - once you're in the system, you're there, even if you fall out of Self Assessment. Plus, what exactly would you do with someone else's UTR? You can't call HMRC and ask them who the UTR belongs to and why it's been set up - that would be breaking confidentiality.

Anyone could give you a random ten digits together and say they were self-employed - wouldn't make it true.

Rather than fuss over whether someone has registered with HMRC as self-employed, have a think about the scenario and the facts.

Is your cleaner free to do the hours you need at a convenient time to him/her? Does your cleaner bring his/her own equipment? Can your cleaner send someone else round if s/he isn't feeling well? Do you watch your cleaner like a hawk, telling him/her what to clean and how to clean it, or do you ask him/her to clean a particular room and leave it his/her expertise to work out how to do that? Do you pay a fixed fee for a clean? If the cleaner screws up, does s/he sort it at his/her own time/cost?

If you're comfortable that the person doing your cleaning is not your employee, I think you've done all you need to.

HMRC can pursue an employer for an employee's unpaid tax - but they wouldn't pursue a client for a business' unpaid tax.

Molly41

Answers to your questions -

Is your cleaner free to do the hours you need at a convenient time to him/her? - Yes it was always on her terms and when she could fit me in - this chopped and changed and became a major problem
Does your cleaner bring his/her own equipment? No
Can your cleaner send someone else round if s/he isn't feeling well? No and she became very unreliable doing other jobs before me
Do you watch your cleaner like a hawk, telling him/her what to clean and how to clean it, or do you ask him/her to clean a particular room and leave it his/her expertise to work out how to do that? I often left her to her own device but would leave her a note if I need ed something specific. She cleaned very badly towards the end
Do you pay a fixed fee for a clean? I pay her by the hour. If she does not attend she did not get paid
If the cleaner screws up, does s/he sort it at his/her own time/cost? No - another problem

See it is not black and white ?
Would HMRC really chase me for unpaid tax? I do suspect she is working cash in hand and not just me my neighbour too!

persa

Molly41 wrote: »

Answers to your questions -

Is your cleaner free to do the hours you need at a convenient time to him/her? - no it was always on her terms and when she could fit me in - this chopped and changed and became a major problem
Does your cleaner bring his/her own equipment? No
Can your cleaner send someone else round if s/he isn't feeling well? No and she became very unreliable doing other jobs before me
Do you watch your cleaner like a hawk, telling him/her what to clean and how to clean it, or do you ask him/her to clean a particular room and leave it his/her expertise to work out how to do that? I often left her to her own device but would leave her a note if I need ed something specific. She cleaned very badly towards the end
Do you pay a fixed fee for a clean? I pay her by the hour. If she does not attend she did not get paid
If the cleaner screws up, does s/he sort it at his/her own time/cost? No - another problem

See it is not black and white ?
Would HMRC really chase me for unpaid tax? I do suspect she is working cash in hand and not just me my neighbour too!

My points were directed at the OP, who can still influence whether the relationship is that of a worker or an employee, as the cleaner has not started yet, and therefore things are up for negotiation and certain clauses can be written into a contract.

In your case, it's after the fact, you have a full list of what did and didn't happen and you're stuck with it.

Take a look here: https://esi2calculator.hmrc.gov.uk/esi/app/index.html

If you fill out the online tool accurately - and don't worry, the results don't get sent anywhere - you'll know what view HMRC would take in case of you and your previous cleaner. I stress 'accurately' - the tool is only as helpful as the person inputting the data. If the answer comes out as self-employed, stop worrying.

Molly41

Sorry to hijack thread but thought it was relevant. I will in future clarify the issue as opposed to thinking about it as an afterthought. - If I ever pluck up courage to hire another cleaner - traumatised. I never had any say over when my cleaner worked for me and I did not supervise her doing her job, although I did sometimes give her a list.

I do remember a conversation when I asked her if she could claim tax credits as she was struggling and she mentioned that she could;t because of her cleaning jobs. So probably worrying unnecessarily - I do suffer from significant anxiety problems and her sudden departure has upset me greatly as I did think of her as more than a cleaner. Another lesson to keep business on a business footing!

Mojisola

Molly41 wrote: »

I do suffer from significant anxiety problems and her sudden departure has upset me greatly as I did think of her as more than a cleaner. Another lesson to keep business on a business footing!

You would probably find it easier to have a contract with a company rather than an individual. Everything will be documented, they will invoice you, they will provide cover if your usual cleaner is unable to work and it will be a business relationship.

MadameD

I run a cleaning business.

I am not employed by any of my clients. If they perceive it that way, they are wrong. I work as & when I choose.

If they were my employers, they would need Employer's Liability and they'd have to pay me 5.6wks/yr holiday pay which none of them do.

A cleaner is in no way your employee. They are just like anyone else providing a service - a window cleaner, carpet cleaner, mobile hairdresser, plumber.

I think the misconception is caused because people think having someone to clean their home is something they can instruct a cleaner to do and this gives them a sense of authority which in turn leads people to think they're employing them. Whereas no one would tell their hairdresser how to cut hair or tell a plumber how to install a radiator.

Molly41

Yes that is the thing with my ex cleaner she worked as and when she chose and did the job her way. I gave her a list of please clean the bathroom but she did it her way. Thank you for clarifying x

cavework

Mojisola wrote: »

You would probably find it easier to have a contract with a company rather than an individual. Everything will be documented, they will invoice you, they will provide cover if your usual cleaner is unable to work and it will be a business relationship.

and you will end up with a cleaner earning not more than a basic wage while the agency creams the hourly difference. Also you will probably end up with a different cleaner every month.
Advertise locally and pay a decent wage.:eek:

Mojisola

cavework wrote: »

and you will end up with a cleaner earning not more than a basic wage while the agency creams the hourly difference. Also you will probably end up with a different cleaner every month.

Advertise locally and pay a decent wage.:eek:

If the OP is too anxious to take on another cleaner but still needs a cleaner, a company is the way to go.

I did that when I first arranged cleaners for my parents but I chose a small local company who paid the workers a reasonable amount. The owner always did a certain number of hours cleaning herself each week so that she didn't lose touch with what she was asking her workers to do. It also gave her a chance to talk to clients directly and get good feedback on the service being provided.

cavework

The OP will be paying way over the odds if she is not really careful.
If she is happy to have various cleaners turn up and have complete confidence that the company she is using fully reference their staff then perhaps that is the way to go