National Railcard For All Petition

wealdroam

Mids_Costcutter wrote: »

The cost of the railcard itself and increased number of rail journeys by the users would ensure an increase in income for the train operating companies.

Are you sure about that?

If that's the case then surely the rail companies would've introduced this railcard already.
The fact that they haven't must mean that they are not convinced.

Mids_Costcutter

Yes, please see post no. 3 and follow the link. There's plenty of experience with railcards in other European countries.

The train operating companies (TOCs) probably aren't all convinced because they're very risk averse and would prefer to keep the status quo. Furthermore unlike most other countries there's 22 different TOCs and they would all have to agree to introduce a national railcard.

jacko74

Can some of those who seem to be opposed to the idea of a National Railcard explain to me why it should only be people in London and the South-East (the most affluent part of the country) that are entitled to discounted rail travel, while the rest of us have to pay full whack?

Herbalus

jacko74 wrote: »

Can some of those who seem to be opposed to the idea of a National Railcard explain to me why it should only be people in London and the South-East (the most affluent part of the country) that are entitled to discounted rail travel, while the rest of us have to pay full whack?

I'm not strictly opposed to the idea. I'm a student myself, so have the 16-25 railcard. I also live in the south east, and had never heard of the network railcard (I've just looked it up). I would agree in principal with your point that it's unfair to have it only in some areas, though I'm no expert. Presumably the companies there want it, and the northern ones don't, which is an issue of business and not necessarily fairness.

And FYI, though I know you were generalising about the South being affluent, I am a reasonably well-off student with a paid summer internship in London, yet spend half of my income on a room in a house and over a quarter on train fares. Doesn't leave much room for many pints at the end of the week.

My objection to a national railcard would be that giving everyone a card that allows 10% discount is the same as 10% off the ticket price, so I think it's more worthwhile campaigning for lower ticket prices.

As for the issue about train companies getting increased revenue from selling the card, I don't agree because most people save more than the card costs.

As for the issue about increased revenue from the increase in journeys due to cheaper prices, simply having cheaper prices would also have the same effect.

dzug1

Mids_Costcutter wrote: »

Yes, please see post no. 3 and follow the link. There's plenty of experience with railcards in other European countries.

The train operating companies (TOCs) probably aren't all convinced because they're very risk averse and would prefer to keep the status quo. Furthermore unlike most other countries there's 22 different TOCs and they would all have to agree to introduce a national railcard.

Well yes - but there's a wide variety of prices for railcards in Europe. The Swiss equivalent is around £135 - though it does give half fare on what must be fares rivalling ours in price. The German 25% off is more attractively priced at a bit short of £60.

If ours were of the same sort of order would it still be attractive?

Mids_Costcutter

Herbalus wrote: »

My objection to a national railcard would be that giving everyone a card that allows 10% discount is the same as 10% off the ticket price, so I think it's more worthwhile campaigning for lower ticket prices.

As for the issue about train companies getting increased revenue from selling the card, I don't agree because most people save more than the card costs.

As for the issue about increased revenue from the increase in journeys due to cheaper prices, simply having cheaper prices would also have the same effect.

This all assumes that passengers would make exactly the same number of journeys each year with or without the 'national off-peak railcard' - they wouldn't. We have a Family Railcard and I would definitely say we make more rail journeys than beforehand: it's an incentive to travel by train. So the train operating companies would benefit. But please look at the research via the link in post no. 3. There are reasons why other European countries have a higher share of passenger journeys made by train, not only railcards of course but I believe they are a factor.

I do agree that rail fares in general are too high in the UK, especially 'walk-up' fares, but that's a separate issue.

Mids_Costcutter

dzug1 wrote: »

If ours were of the same sort of order would it still be attractive?

Attractive to whom? The passenger or the TOC?

Herbalus

Mids_Costcutter wrote: »

We have a Family Railcard and I would definitely say we make more rail journeys than beforehand: it's an incentive to travel by train.

I wondered if this would come up. It'd be like a DFS sale. Always 20% off so people feel good about their journey, though behind closed doors they'd have marked the price up by the amount of the reduction.

The only feasible way I can see this happening would be a price tag that seems too expensive, like £100. That way it'd only be the regular train users that would get it. My £20 railcard can pay for itself in a return trip from London to Exeter. If was easy to get, train companies would lose out and prices would go up to compensate. I don't really want a DFS train fare system.

Mids_Costcutter

Herbalus wrote: »

I wondered if this would come up. It'd be like a DFS sale. Always 20% off so people feel good about their journey, though behind closed doors they'd have marked the price up by the amount of the reduction.

The only feasible way I can see this happening would be a price tag that seems too expensive, like £100. That way it'd only be the regular train users that would get it. My £20 railcard can pay for itself in a return trip from London to Exeter. If was easy to get, train companies would lose out and prices would go up to compensate. I don't really want a DFS train fare system.

Well, some rail fares are regulated and the rest are certainly monitored and reported on (unlike DFS's prices). So what kind of train fare system would you like?

vikingaero

jacko74 wrote: »

Can some of those who seem to be opposed to the idea of a National Railcard explain to me why it should only be people in London and the South-East (the most affluent part of the country) that are entitled to discounted rail travel, while the rest of us have to pay full whack?

I'd argue that the cost per mile for travel is far higher in London and SE.

For instance a day return to London for me is £31 + £8 parking (I live 35 miles from London). I've got a new car to pick up next month from Ardrossan and my APEX single ticket of Maidstone - London Victoria - Tube - Euston - Glasgow - Ardrossan is £23!:money: