Have we been missing something obvious?

Guys_Dad

nigelbb wrote: »

Fistral Beach car park (& all the other land) is owned by the local council & leased to a company called Britannic Industries which despite it's grand sounding name is actually a property development company run by a local couple called Nicholas & Linda Briant
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1505951.stm
http://www.newquayvoice.co.uk/news/5/article/3428/

There are 3 gems in there Nigel

1 PE give a 20 minute free parking before you need to buy a ticket

2 they also give a 15 minute overstay grace period. Very useful to remember that for other PE sites when ticketed for a short overstay. (why have a different policy on grace periods from one place to another)

3 The charge or "fine" was £90 in the report in 2011. Bet they haven't applied to increase it to the council.

Custard_Pie

Guys_Dad wrote: »

But if they produce a contract, ostensibly with the landowner, how can you disprove that the other party is not the landowner other than by having proof of who the landowner is?[/I]

Does it matter at PoPLA though? To date the PPC are either to lazy or stupid to go to those lengths to lie and you would also have to persuade the Landowner to go in on the scam.

I can't see either party willing to lie for the sake of £100, only to be done for contempt of Court if they pursued it all the way.

You are giving them to much credit me thinks. The checks you refer to all cost time and money.

If a person was facing a Court claim then by all means, but for a soft appeal and PoPLA, for me it's an unnecessary step.

Guys_Dad

You miss my point. Take the Fistral example in this case.

The PPC has a contract with Britannic Industries who lease the land from the council. If you read the newspaper article that Nigel linked, the charges that are in that article have changed since then.

Until the contract/lease between Britanic and the council is produced, how does anyone know whether or not there were any covenants or restrictions built into their lease from the landowner?

It's not a matter of lying or collusion but more to do with checking that the lease from the landowner gives the people who hired the PPC the right to bring in "penalty" parking or override any free periods of parking.

DollyDee_2

Referring to Post #4 by Buzby - are Valuation Rolls just for Scotland? I went to library yesterday, admittedly not the main library for the area, and enquired and the librarian said she hadn't heard of it and told me I would have to use the Land Registry.

I've googled "Valuation Rolls England" but it only brings up stuff for Scotland.

Noticed Buzby is in Scotland too.

newholme30

Guys_Dad wrote: »

You miss my point. Take the Fistral example in this case.

It's not a matter of lying or collusion but more to do with checking that the lease from the landowner gives the people who hired the PPC the right to bring in "penalty" parking or override any free periods of parking.

Apologies for resurrecting but is this saying that the contract must specifically allow for the parking penalty and not simply just allow parking to be charged on a time basis?

On valuation, the rolls only seem for Scotland and unsure how to get these outwith. For the Fistral example, the Guardian wrote in 2002:

Restormel insists the deal represents good value for money. Ian Rigby, the council's head of economic and community development, says the authority has obtained two independent valuations of the proposed annual rental level of £13,800 - which applies from year six and is subject to five-yearly reviews in line with the retail price index. Each valuation confirmed that the council would get a reasonable return.

Coupon-mad

It's in the BPA Code of Practice if you want to check about 'contracts with landowners'. PPCs have to have a contract that gives them the authority to pursue parking charges in the courts as creditor - if it doesn't say that, then it's not BPA AOS code compliant.

newholme30

Thanks Coupon, that's useful and I will have a read.

Presumably those rights have to traceable via any contract to the actual Landowner, rather than simply between PPC and a sub-lessee if the land is leased several times between parties.