VCS ticket from Robin Hood Airport

Poohandpiglet

Hi all
I've spent too long on here following threads and am now confused!
I have a parking Charge Notice from VCS alleging that I infringed a 'No stopping/Waiting' restriction in the early hours, it was sent within a week of the incident. I stopped for a few minutes only whilst checking the latest arrival time of a flight - it had been delayed and then brought forward. The advice on here seems to fall into two camps - a 'soft' reply to VCS refuting the charge and asking for a POPLA code - not identifying the driver - or a long and complex challenge directly to them asking them to prove all the things that may be used in any later appeal.
Before I looked at this and other sites I would have normally written to them explaining why it was an unfair charge but see that this is probably a waste of time. Now that VCS can aim the charge at the RK does it matter who was driving?
I fervently believe that this charge is wrong and akin to Highway Robbery - we would have hanged the perpetrators 200 years ago!!!
Please advise
Thanks

Guys_Dad

Lots of recent threads on Robin Hood. Chances are you will see lots of relevant information on them. Just do a search.

May be quicker in the long run.

Custard_Pie

Poohandpiglet wrote: »

Hi all
I've spent too long on here following threads and am now confused!
I have a parking Charge Notice from VCS alleging that I infringed a 'No stopping/Waiting' restriction in the early hours, it was sent within a week of the incident. I stopped for a few minutes only whilst checking the latest arrival time of a flight - it had been delayed and then brought forward. The advice on here seems to fall into two camps - a 'soft' reply to VCS refuting the charge and asking for a POPLA code - not identifying the driver - or a long and complex challenge directly to them asking them to prove all the things that may be used in any later appeal.
Before I looked at this and other sites I would have normally written to them explaining why it was an unfair charge but see that this is probably a waste of time. Now that VCS can aim the charge at the RK does it matter who was driving?
I fervently believe that this charge is wrong and akin to Highway Robbery - we would have hanged the perpetrators 200 years ago!!!
Please advise
Thanks

There is no point going into great detail with your initial soft appeal to the PPC. They will almost certainly reject it. Send in the true facts and request the charge to be cancelled or a PoPLA code if your appeal is rejected.

When it's rejected, come back here as has been suggested and search for similar incidents at the same location.

Also search for the post in my signature on how to appeal at PoPLA. Tailor to suit and remember that there is a character limit with PoPLA's on-line form, so follow up with an e-mail directly to them with all your appeal.

Good luck!

Coupon-mad

Poohandpiglet wrote: »

Hi all
I've spent too long on here following threads and am now confused!
I have a parking Charge Notice from VCS alleging that I infringed a 'No stopping/Waiting' restriction in the early hours, it was sent within a week of the incident. I stopped for a few minutes only whilst checking the latest arrival time of a flight - it had been delayed and then brought forward. The advice on here seems to fall into two camps - a 'soft' reply to VCS refuting the charge and asking for a POPLA code - not identifying the driver - or a long and complex challenge directly to them asking them to prove all the things that may be used in any later appeal.
Before I looked at this and other sites I would have normally written to them explaining why it was an unfair charge but see that this is probably a waste of time. Now that VCS can aim the charge at the RK does it matter who was driving?
I fervently believe that this charge is wrong and akin to Highway Robbery - we would have hanged the perpetrators 200 years ago!!!
Please advise
Thanks

Why not just search the parking forum for the keyword 'Robin'. Click back one click to the main page one of the parking forum (see my signature for where to click to use the breadcrumb trail to always take you back to page one of current threads). Then use the 'search this forum' heading on the right above the thread list, put in Robin and then change the default search to 'show posts' which works better as a meaningful search.

Read the resulting threads. Send your strong challenge (not soft, IMHO), written in third person about 'the driver'. That's my take on it. And as it's VCS (who like to respond with a template letter pretending you have to say who was driving = a lie) pre-empt that at the end of your challenge by saying 'you are now required to either accept or reject my appeal as registered keeper, so please don't insult my intelligence by sending one of your notorious template fob-off letters, pretending you have to know who was driving. I decline your invitation to name the driver and wish to appeal to POPLA myself, as I am entitled to do under the POFA 2012. If you do not send me a POPLA code, I will complain to the BPA and the DVLA as well as showing POPLA your non-compliant response, in due course. Maybe you would rather just cancel it now, which is your only other option.'

Loads of advice already on here about how to appeal and what to say in any appeal against an Airport fake PCN. My view is to send a STRONG challenge first time as these are pretty easy to defeat, especially as there's likely to be no registered keeper liability here, due to statutory bylaws it's not 'relevant land'.

Poohandpiglet

Thanks for the replies - although I know they differ in approach!
For Coupon-mad - is this the kind of strong challenge you refer to?

Doctored one found previously - but cut and paste not perfect!

Name

Address

Date

Without prejudice, exceptas to costs

Notice to Keeper xxxxxxxxx

On noticedate I was the registeredkeeper of a vehicletyperegistration number xxxxxxxx

Before I decide how to deal with your Noticeto Keeper, I should be grateful if you would first answer all the questions and deal with allthe issues I have set out below. Once you have done so, I will be able to make an informeddecision on how I deal with the matter.
I dispute the parking charge for the reasonsset out below. Please note that, although I dispute the whole basis of the parkingcharge, my main concerns are its disproportionate and punitive level and whether Vehicle Control Services Limited (VCS) has any keeper liability under the POF Act 2012anyway, because, in my opinion, Doncaster Sheffield Airport land is covered bybyelaws and is NOT 'relevant land' as defined in the POF Act 2012. You willneed to provide evidence, substantiated by the airport authorities, that thisland is not covered by bylaws if the notice is to be pursued.

1. No contract

There was no contract between the driver and VCS. The driverdid not see any contractual information on any signs when entering the roadsleading to the airportandtherefore at that time had no idea that any contract or restrictions applied.As a consequence the requirements for forming a contract such as a meeting of minds,agreement, and certainty of terms were not satisfied.

2. Trespass

If there was no contract, then, at most thedriver was guilty of a civil trespass (though this is neither admitted nor denied). If this werethe case, the driver may be liable to damages.
Given that no ‘damage’ was done to the roads leading to the airport andthat there was no moving traffic on the roads leading to the airport whenthe driver stopped briefly in a lay by, there was, in fact, no obstruction and noloss at all.

3. Punitive/unfair/unreasonablecharge

Even if there was a contract (which isdenied), the following matters are relevant:

3(a). Punitive

The parking charge you are imposing ispunitive and therefore void (i.e. unenforceable). The £100 (discounted to £60 if paid promptly)parking charge isarbitrary and disproportionate to any alleged breach of contract or trespass.This would also apply to any mention of any costs incurred through debtrecovery unless it followed a court order.
Given the elapsed time between the first and lastphotograph is only 15 seconds, the charge imposed is extortionate.

3(b). Unfair

The £100parkingcharge you are imposing is an unfair term (and therefore not binding) under theUnfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. In particular, Schedule 2of those Regulations which gives an indicative (and non-exhaustive) list ofterms which may be regarded as unfair and includes at Schedule 2(1)(e):

[FONT="Arial]‘Terms which have the objector effect of requiring any consumer who fails to fulfil his[/FONT]

[FONT="Arial]obligation to pay adisproportionately high sum in compensation.’[/FONT]

Furthermore, Regulation 5(1) says:

[FONT="Arial]‘A [/FONT]contractual term which hasnot been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary tothe requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in theparties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of[FONT="Arial]the consumer’[/FONT]

And 5(2), which states:

[FONT="Arial]‘A term shall always beregarded as not having been individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advanceand the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the [FONT="Arial]substance of the term.’[/FONT][/FONT]

3(c). Unreasonable

The £100 parking charge you are imposing is anunreasonable indemnity clause under section 4(1) of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977, whichsays:

[FONT="Arial]‘A person cannot by reference to anycontract term be made to indemnify another person [/FONT](whether a party to the contract ornot) in respect of liability that may be incurred by the other for negligenceor breach of contract, except in so far as the contract term satisfies the [FONT="Arial]requirementof reasonableness.’[/FONT]

Further information Irequire you to provide and take notice of the following:

Please note specifically that this letter is not an appeal, however, it is a challengeto the issue of the Notice to Keeper as set out inthe BPA AOS Code of Practice B.22. I should be grateful for answers to all questions raised.In this respect, I remind you of the obligations set out in the current Practice Direction onPre-Action Conduct.

4(a). Clarification of Causeof action.

If it is your claim that the driver enteredinto a contract, please send me a complete version of the terms and conditionsof that contract to which you say the driver agreed to.

4(b). Clarification of Action Taken

Further to the above please explain fully onwhich of the following grounds your claim is based:

(i) Damages for trespass

(ii) Damages for breach of contract

(iii) A contractual sum

5. Your loss.

If it is your case that that a trespass wascommitted or that a contract was breached such that your claim is one for damages, pleasegive me a full breakdown of the actual loss you say was suffered by your business or the landowner/landholder.

6. Appeals procedure.

I require a copy of any appeal procedure youfollow, along with details of what factors you take into account; who is the judge orarbitrator and whether they are independent; whether it is governed by theArbitration Act 1996 and any other relevant factors. In addition, please giveme disclosure of any arguments you would put forward on this matter in any subsequentappeal process so that either the registered keeper or the driver mightconsider his or her response to any existing or new issues which are raised.

7. Your status.

Your Notice to Keeper simply mentions VCS. Please tell me who the actualcreditor is making this £100parking charge demand. I need to know exactly who is makingthe claim and in what capacity.

8. Ownership of premises.

Please tell me who owns the approach roads,as I wish to send them a copy of this letter.

9. Contract to operate.

Please provide me with a copy of the contractbetween VCS and the landowner/landholder.

10. Involvement oflandowner/landholder.

Please explain any involvement, if at all, ofthe landowner/landholder with the management of parking at this site and specifically withregard to the issue and enforcement of your Notices to Keeper.

11(a). Photographs -handling.

Your notice refers to ‘photographicevidence’. Please send me a copy of your procedures for handling and processing that evidence and therelevant audit trail. Furthermore, under
section 7 of the Data Protection Act 1998,please send me a copy of all such photographs along with a copy of all other data you holdrelating to me. As this would be required to be
disclosed in any event as part of yourevidence bundle in the small claims process, I do not expect to pay for the release of my personaldata which you hold.

11(b). Photographs [FONT="Arial]–[/FONT]evidence.

The copies of the photographs that you haveprovided along with the Parking Charge Notice merely show my vehicle stationary briefly on the road to theairport but do not show the actual alleged parking contravention on whichyour Parking Charge Notice has been issued. Please therefore provide me with copies ofall photographs that evidence the actual alleged parking contravention itself.

12. Signage.

If it is your case that a contract has beenbreached or that a contractual sum is now due, please send me photographs of the signs thatyou display and upon which you seek to
evidence that a lawful and legallyenforceable contract was been entered into. Please ensure that the photographs show the termsand conditions in a clear and legible manner.

Please provide me with a diagram showing thelocations and layout of those signson the roads leading to and from the airport. Also provide evidence that all the wording is in plain andintelligible language and in sufficiently large print as to be legible to adriver proceeding normally and at night on the roads leading to and fromthe airport.

13. Legal representation.

Please provide me with the name and addressof your solicitors, if any, in order that I may copy them into this correspondence.

14. To avoid doubt, pleasedo not do any of the following:

(i) Send any further correspondence ordocuments to me or try to communicate with me in any way except to address, inwriting, the specific points I have raised in this letter.

(ii) Send me any document purporting to befrom the county court unless it is a valid claim form duly issued.

(iii) Write to me threatening to sendbailiffs to my address without first issuing a court claim form and obtainingjudgment.

(iv) Send me any standard letters from yourcompany or debt collectors.

15. Further Action.

If you do decide pursue this PCN, please notethat I reserve the right to add further arguments to the above points either ina POPLA appeal or in court.

I look forward to receiving youracknowledgement within 14 days and a comprehensive reply within 35 days (in accordancewith the BPA AOS Code of Practice B.22.8). I will then be able to make an informed decision as tohow I shall respond to your Notice to Keeper.

If you reject this challenge or fail toaddress the issues that have been raised then, in accordance with the BPA AOS Code of Practice22.12, please ensure that you enclose all
the required information (including the necessary ‘POPLA code’)so that I may immediately refer the matter for their decision.

If you fail to follow any of the proceduresoutlined in the BPA AOS Code of Practice or your legal requirements under the Protectionof Freedoms Act, or the requirements of the
Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct,then I will make a formal complaint to the DVLA Data Sharing Policy Group, D16.

You are now required to either acceptor reject my challenge as registered keeper, so please don't insult me furtherby sending any template letter, pretending you have to know who was driving. Idecline any invitation to name the driver and wish to appeal to POPLA myself,as I am entitled to do under the POFA 2012. If you do not send me a POPLA code,I will complain to the BPA and the DVLA as well as, in due course, showingPOPLA your non-compliant response.
If you decide to cancel the PCN instead ofanswering the above points I will require written confirmation of thecancellation.



Please Note: Unless youhave specifically requested it and received my express permission, you do nothave my authority to disclose or refer this letter or any other
communication from me toany other person or organisation.



Yours

Coupon-mad

Yep you could send that, but VCS won't answer the half of it and will no doubt respond with that 'old chestnut' template of their own pretending you have to name the driver.

I was thinking more of an individually written appeal like this one (below) as it's less of a template (I only wrote it for someone the other day for another PPC called APCOA, so VCS won't have seen it yet).

Otherwise you are sending VCS a template they've seen before, telling them at the end not to send you a template in reply!

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62859837#Comment_62859837

It's specific to a site with byelaws (Railway or Airport) and specific to a Notice which is not compliant in various ways (you would have to check and spot the flaws in the VCS Notice by comparing their Notice to this checklist):

http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/keeper-liability/

...and then amend the statements to suit the flaws with their Notice. And maybe finish with that 'don't insult me further' ending.

Poohandpiglet

Hmm - thanks again for that - the only points in you APCOA challenge that seem applicable are the paragraphs referring to: Pursuance of keeper liability on land covered by byelaws (I've seen a copy of 2005 byelaws but not sure if they're current?)
No specific statement of Creditor.

Would that be enough to make them think again?....or should the fine just be paid at the discounted rate to avoid more sleepless nights.

You guys who post here trying to help those who don't understand legalese must get really frustrated!
Cheers

Coupon-mad

What?! Paying isn't an option except if you like being scammed. VCS do not need to be paid because you will beat them at POPLA. Have you not yet searched found the couple of other RH Airport threads on here yet, as I suggested above, you only need one keyword 'Robin' to find them. And a search of 'VCS' would find other VCS cases recently which you can also read to see that no-one pays, they all now appeal to POPLA and win!

Is the Notice clearly headed up 'Notice to Keeper' then, so not a misleading title? They sent it in time as well?

What about making a combination of points (but shorter than the template you found)? So summat like:


''Date: / /2013


Dear Sir/Madam,

‘Notice to Owner/Keeper’ ref number xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

It is clear from your Notice of ../8/2013 that you issued it with a view to pursuing keeper liability under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA). The BPA Code of Practice (CoP) supports the need for strict compliance (para 21.5 refers).

I write to challenge the Notice and to inform you that VCS has failed to meet the strict requirements that might have enabled you to pursue this matter with myself (the registered keeper) if this had been 'relevant land' as defined in the POFA (which I contend it is not). In summary, you have issued a defective Notice to attempt to claim from me a charge for which I have no liability.

For the avoidance of doubt, I will not be divulging the details of the driver on the day so do not send me your standard time-wasting response pretending that you have to know who was driving. The BPA have recently reminded firms in your 'industry' that this 'name the driver' response is not acceptable - you and I both know your only options within your industry CoP are either to accept my challenge now or reject it and provide me with a POPLA code immediately.

On Airport land no keeper liability generally applies at all, due to local Bylaws taking precedence. All the land and surrounding approach roads are Airport-owned and covered by Bylaws and, as such, the Airport is not 'relevant land' under POFA. There is no registered keeper liability. You will need to provide evidence, substantiated by the Airport authorities, that this land is not covered by Bylaws if the Notice is to be pursued against myself as the registered keeper. Without that, you have no cause to have obtained by data from the DVLA and certainly no further cause of action.

In addition, I would draw your attention to the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (hereinafter CPUTR). No doubt your legal advisors will be able to explain the various issues which cause your flawed Notice to be a nullity in law. A specific flaw with your Notice is that it fails to include specific identification as to who 'the Creditor' may be. This is misleading and not compliant, in regards to paragraph 9(2)(h) of Schedule 4 of the POFA. Whilst your Notice has indicated that you require a payment to be made to VCS, there is no specific identification of the Creditor, who may, in law, be VCS or some other party. The POFA requires a ‘Notice to Keeper’ to have words to the effect that 'The Creditor is….' and your Notice does not.

If - rather than cancel this 'Notice' - you decide to fund my POPLA appeal, I will require in your evidence pack, a copy of your contract with the landowner which you are relying upon. If it is a redacted copy then there must still be evidence in the document which shows that the contract complies with the CoP and specifically allows VCS to pursue these 'charges' in their own name as creditor, in the courts. I will not accept a witness statement in this regard, since it would not be acceptable in a Court.

This contract document will be required in addition to the documentary evidence already mentioned above, namely contemporaneous evidence from the Airport owners that this approach road is not covered by Bylaws.

And I will require maps of the entire area, marked clearly with pictograms or notes showing every sign's position and the exact wording which was on the signs on the date of the alleged incident. As the registered keeper, I can tell you that the driver contends that the signage is unclear; being particularly deficient at the entrance to this road where it fails to inform full terms. Prominent, clear signs are a strict requirement of the CoP and are especially important in an area you are now apparently claiming is a no-stopping zone, bearing in mind that this is an area of moving traffic where a driver will not have had a chance to read and understand any alleged contractual terms merely signposted in VCS' typical unclear 'headings above small-print' style.

If you pursue the matter against me as registered keeper and issue any further correspondence or make any form of contact (except to cancel the charge or reject the challenge and send me details of how to appeal to POPLA) this will be considered harassment. In that event I will lodge an official complaint with the BPA Ltd and the DVLA AOS Compliance Manager, as well as with the Office of the Information Commissioner. I also reserve the right to forward a complaint to the relevant Trading Standards office concerning your commercial practices which which appear to be in breach of the CPUTR and the CoP.

Take formal notice that I will of course include your client (Airport owners) in any complaints and, in addition, they will be named as jointly and severally liable in any future court claim I may seek to lodge with MCOL, for damages for harassment and specific breaches of the above Acts.

I do not expect to receive a ‘generic’ template response and which fails to address the specific issues that I have raised with you. No further correspondence will be entered into, except a POPLA appeal which I will gladly submit if VCS choose to fund that stage. No further warning will be given if I pursue the matter through the Small Claims Track against VCS and your client at this site.

I therefore expect you to immediately cancel the ‘parking charge’ and inform me in writing that you have done so. In addition, VCS are required to remove my personal data (and that of the vehicle) from all formats of storage, immediately following cancellation, since you have no lawful excuse to keep a registered keeper's data under the circumstances.

Yours faithfully,

PRINT NAME' (no need to give them your real signature)''

Poohandpiglet

Thanks again - I was having a bit of a wobble!

You're right and the last suggested communication looks good - the Notice was not headed up Notice to Keeper it was merely a Parking Charge Notice but does say that the 'Liability for this parking charge notice (PCN) lies with the driver/hirer of the vehicle.' Lower down it does remind that after 28 days they can issue a notice to keeper and recover any unpaid sum.
Presumably they can't send a NtK until 28 days have elapsed?
Will this challenge stop them doing this?
Do I send the challenge now - ie before the first 14 day reduced payment option given on the notice expires?
Does a challenge put any timescale on hold?

Sorry for additional questions - the challenge is ready to send!

Thanks

Coupon-mad

Poohandpiglet wrote: »

Thanks again - I was having a bit of a wobble!

You're right and the last suggested communication looks good - the Notice was not headed up Notice to Keeper it was merely a Parking Charge Notice but does say that the 'Liability for this parking charge notice (PCN) lies with the driver/hirer of the vehicle.'

Lower down it does remind that after 28 days they can issue a notice to keeper and recover any unpaid sum.

Presumably they can't send a NtK until 28 days have elapsed? That's correct.

Will this challenge stop them doing this? Yes, if you challenge as the keeper now - which you should because the 'PCN' was a postal one - they won't send a NTK later (in fact this PCN is the NTK so they are being misleading). Either the PCN will be cancelled by the PPC (unlikely) or you'll be appealing to POPLA.

Do I send the challenge now - ie before the first 14 day reduced payment option given on the notice expires? Yep but the 14 days means nothing to you as you won't be paying this piece of trash (and in fact you have 28 days to appeal).

Does a challenge put any timescale on hold? It puts the actual PCN on hold and they can't add debt collector costs to it; they can't 'work on it' (i.e. send letters to try to 'recover' the fake non-existent 'charge') at all until POPLA have decided, sometime in October or so. But the fake bribe 'discount' is not an option now once you appeal - but to an informed person, it never was an option to pay them!

Sorry for additional questions - the challenge is ready to send!

Thanks

Replies in red above, yep just send it now and don't be surprised if you have to 'poke them with a sharp stick' if their response is a template reply with no POPLA code!

No need to wobble at all, this is fun and you will beat the scammers at their own expense.

Poohandpiglet

Thanks to all - specially Coupon-mad - challenge sent in today, I'll await response.
Cheers