My mum is desperate!

janiebquick

hardpressed wrote: »

Oh dear what a situation for your mum to be in. It comes as a stark reminder to anyone who is in a partnership but not married that you need to make a will. No matter how young or old we are nobody knows when their time will come.

EVERYONE needs to make a will.

John_Pierpoint

Come on, go here and search for the legal title to the flat, then print it off and publish it
here and we will explain what it means.
https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry

Here is a typical result from a small block of flats in South Essex.
Find a property - purchase documents

Address:
138X
Southend Road
Stanford-le-hope
SS17 7AL

Tenure:
Leasehold


Price Paid/Value Stated Data:
Please purchase the title register to see the price paid/value stated for this property

Obviously you would want to change the actual names and addresses before putting the wording here for others to view.

Meanwhile Zoopla offers this information about the value:
Maisonette, Leasehold , 2 Beds, 1 Baths, 1 Receps -
Last sale: £120,000 Sale date: 16th Feb 2005

Zoopla Estimate
£135,095

Xxwkd

John, I fail to see how me doing that is going to help!

John_Pierpoint

If you pay the £3 it will tell you who legally owns the home and with a bit of luck how they own it.
If mum is "dependant" on the deceased, she has some rights to to support from the estate of the deceased.
All very well and good, but if the deceased's estate has virtually no value then having rights over virtually nothing is not a lot of use.

If nothing else, finding out that the sister now owns the the flat, will confirm that the sister has the legal right to do what she is doing. Perhaps the sister got her right of legal representation more than six months ago and has been biding her time up to now waiting for mum's unclaimed rights to run out of time?

Who knows? - the expression "head in the sand" does come to mind.
Did the sister go through the legal niceties of advertising in the London Gazette and in the local paper asking if anyone thinks they have have a claim on the estate of the deceased?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=+London+gazette+two+month+notice
https://www.probatewizard.co.uk/guides/section-27-notice-to-creditors.html

If nothing else your mum might be able to muddy the legal waters sufficiently to get a stay of execution over her eviction for a month or three.

Pollycat

OP, your Mum is in a very unfortunate position.

I just wanted to comment on this:

Xxwkd wrote: »

Giggle pig,
But she was and still is devastated and in denial. It's not want she wants to hear so she doesn't listen. Just when I think maybe it has sunk in and she is starting to listen to sense, someone else goes and fills her head with false hope and because this is what she wants to hear she listens.

Dimey wrote: »

If your Mum won't listen then there's something very wrong. Sorry to ask but is she mentally fit? If she is then you can only give her good advice and if she won't take it then you'll have to stand back and watch her handle the situation herself. Including being evicted if that's her choice.

One of my very close friends was going through a messy divorce.
She had lots of friends telling her what she would be entitled to.

I did a lot of checking up on the Directgov website, asked questions on here, asked the solicitor questions (I went to every meeting with her).
What I found out did not agree with what her friends were telling her.

I told her on numerous occasions that she'd have to put the house up for sale - her solicitor had told her that (unless she could afford to buy him out, which she couldn't) in reply to my question at the very first meeting.
I told her she wouldn't be entitled to some of the benefits they said she would get.

Guess who she chose to listen to?
Yep, not me - 'cos I was the one telling her things she didn't want to hear.
In the end, I just had to back off and let things take their course and be there to pick up the pieces.
She did actually come round to accepting things, I think she needed to do it in her own time.

Good luck with getting through to your Mum.

eddtheduck

If there is a statement in the Land Registry entry along the lines of:

"No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court."

it means that the property is held as "tenants in common". This means that the deceased's share does not pass automatically to the other owners but instead forms part of his estate.

It might then be possible for your mum to make a claim on the estate through the 1975 Inheritance Act (Provision for Family and Dependents) within six months of the daughter taking out administration of the estate.

If there is no such statement on the Land Registry entry then the property was held as "joint tenants", and passes directly to the surviving owners as shown on the entry. This would mean that there is nothing for your mum to claim from, as John says, unless the deceased had other assets (e.g. bank accounts) which she could claim from.

webtalk

eddtheduck wrote: »

If there is a statement in the Land Registry entry along the lines of:

"No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court."

it means that the property is held as "tenants in common". This means that the deceased's share does not pass automatically to the other owners but instead forms part of his estate.

It might then be possible for your mum to make a claim on the estate through the 1975 Inheritance Act (Provision for Family and Dependents) within six months of the daughter taking out administration of the estate.

If there is no such statement on the Land Registry entry then the property was held as "joint tenants", and passes directly to the surviving owners as shown on the entry. This would mean that there is nothing for your mum to claim from, as John says, unless the deceased had other assets (e.g. bank accounts) which she could claim from.

I'd forgotten about the joint tenants and tenants in common aspects of property ownership.

Very important to know the answer to this question before anything else.

And this could be the reason the sister says she owns the property.

Just a word of warning about Land Registry details:

Please think very carefully about positing details about the property (eg address) or the names of the people in the deeds on the forum.

This is not the sort of information that should be made publicly available/visible to all and sundry.

The last thing you want is for anyone in the world who sees this thread to know what address and owners you are speaking about.

Xxwkd

My mum has had the free half hour with a solicitor who has apparently got the title deeds but forgot to put them in with the rest of the stuff she sent to her, but in the letter it says he is the sole owner. I believe like you said though John, that the flat is probably worth very little and so with the legal charge they have to recover some money he owed them there will be not a lot left. However I don't think it was ever about money for my mum it was more about staying a place where she had many good memories with a person she loved very much. But the law says she is unable to do so. End of.

pollypenny

That is so sad for your mum, OP.

However, it's a hard lesson for those who claim that marriage is 'just a piece of paper'.

Dimey

Xxwkd wrote: »

My mum has had the free half hour with a solicitor who has apparently got the title deeds but forgot to put them in with the rest of the stuff she sent to her, but in the letter it says he is the sole owner. I believe like you said though John, that the flat is probably worth very little and so with the legal charge they have to recover some money he owed them there will be not a lot left. However I don't think it was ever about money for my mum it was more about staying a place where she had many good memories with a person she loved very much. But the law says she is unable to do so. End of.

Are you saying your Mum's deceased partner was the sole owner?
Not a third share with his sister and brother in law?

If so that changes things doesn't it?

Then his daughter will be his heir if she's still alive.

If the daughter is not alive then maybe the sister is next of kin unless there are other blood relatives who may have equal claim.

Whichever way, your MUM can't stay unless the owner(s), whoever they are proved to be, allow her to continue as a paying tenant.

Xxwkd, Did you check out that wording on the Land Registry document?
Presumably you can also check whether the deceased's daughter is still alive at least by checking the register of death's??

Will you ask your Mum's solicitor whether the deceased's sister has any legal right to do what she's doing IF your Mum's deceased partner was sole owner and his daughter is alive as sole heir?