Question about private sale of car

cassidy07

My dad recently bought a 2nd hand car from a private seller who told him there was nothing wrong with it and that everything had been checked and the underneath was all greased because of the engine having been checked.
We then discovered, after the engine beginning to smoke and being told by the AA not to drive it anywhere but our garage, that there were various nuts and bolts missing from engine, clamp for turbo was also missing and the cylinder head needed replacing.
Went to explain to seller and requested a refund, they flat out refused and told my dad to take it to court.
Basically, Dad not only forked out £1200 for a car that he was promised was in good working order but another £1000+ for repairs and parts.
He started the small claims procedure, as told to by sellers and now the sellers are saying if it goes to court and they win then they will counter-claim for their solicitors fees. Now we are thinking of simply dropping this issue as my dad is happy to represent himself as we cant afford our own solicitor after paying for the repairs to the car, let alone fees for the other party when they told him to go down the court route!
Any help would be much appreciated

bris

With a private sale your dad would need to prove they misrepresented the car as private sales are normally buyer beware.

The advert would help if it said the things the seller claimed but verbal may be harder to prove.

I would continue with the claim however as the solicitors fees are nonsense, the defendant won't get costs awarded against you, they will be minimal if any.

The fact is, a judge who will be a reasonable person will look at the facts and decide who he/she believes and make a judgment that could go either way.

antrobus

cassidy07 wrote: »

...He started the small claims procedure, as told to by sellers and now the sellers are saying if it goes to court and they win then they will counter-claim for their solicitors fees...

In most cases, the court will not order solicitors’ costs to be paid by the losing party in a small claims case, and if you instruct a solicitor you will have to pay the costs yourself.

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/law_e/law_legal_system_e/law_taking_legal_action_e/small_claims.htm

cassidy07 wrote: »

......Now we are thinking of simply dropping this issue as my dad is happy to represent himself as we cant afford our own solicitor after paying for the repairs to the car, let alone fees for the other party when they told him to go down the court route!...

Which is why they've made that threat.

shaun_from_Africa

It might also be worth going to this website:
http://motinfo.direct.gov.uk/internet/jsp/ECHID-Internet-History-Request.jsp
to check the MOT history of the car and see if there are any advisories noted which relate to the problems.
Even though the faults may not be MOT failures, some testers will make notes of things that they discover during the test.
If any mention has been made of them, you will have proof that the seller was aware before they sold the vehicle.

With regards to solicitors costs, why not get your dad to check his motor insurance to see if he has any legal cover that may help him.

spacey2012

Your Only real chance is to chase up if the private seller really is a private seller and not an auction banger illegal trader.

1. was the VC5 in the sellers actual name and registered to the address you viewed the car at or was he selling his uncle Toms car who lost his legs in a garden shredder accident, when was last change of keeper.

2. Get someone to call the mobile/ number and say they are calling about "the car for sale" just say "the car for sale" snd nothing else and act daft, this gets them all as they have to say, er which car, if they say sorry sold, ask are you getting any in as I am desperate for a car and have cash now.

3. Google the number and enter it as a search in gumtree / pre loved/ adtrader and auto trader, see what it throws up .
Armed with what you find out, come back for more advice.

Other than this buyer beware is usually the outcome in "private sales" disputes, however as I say you will be surprised how many private sales are actually illegal traders.

cassidy07

Thanks for the advice. The car was in the sellers name and registered to the address we viewed at.

I did wonder if the threat of us paying their legal fees was just an attempt to get us to drop it.

Will see what I can find out about MOT's though. Wish there was a database that documented any reason a car was taken to any garage, would make life much easier as the sellers changed their garage frequently.

knightstyle

Dont know what car it is but Toyota have such records on a data base that all toyota garages can access. Might have gone to an inde. though.

spacey2012

You would need a valid argument to sue the seller, such as the advert ms-described the vehicle.
Do you have a copy of the advert they placed.
Other than this buyer beware usually takes precedent and private sales of vehicles are seen as sold with all faults and imperfections which you now own.
The other party can claim limited legal costs for turning up at court.
If they have legal protection as part of a household insurance they will also be a solicitors cost if you lose and possible counter claim for harassment.

As sorry as I am with the situation, unless you can prove a deception has occurred causing a loss, like falsely describing the car "Rigging" the sale in an advertisement then you have little re-course in a private sale.

Example : For sale one car, engine in perfect condition, when in reality it needs a new engine.

macman

If the vendor used the phrase 'there is nothing wrong with it' then he clearly misrepresented the vehicle. The problem is, can you prove it? If you bring a civil case, the burden of proof is on the plaintiff-you have to prove it. He has to do nothing-except perjure himself.

arcon5

I believe the court can use some discretion when awarding parties costs, for legal advice I believe the cap is £90. The guy can though ask for a judge to award travel costs and I believe he can also ask for lost wages if he wins, again capped, just don't know what at.

Any claim should focus on the car being misrepresented - as a claim based on the car having faults will fail with it being a private sale. He should have checked the car over before buying it, especially when buying what I imagine to be an old worn motor.
Even if faults did surface, the guy could simply say he was unaware of them as he is not trained in motor engineering.

Checking its MOT history now won't do much good.

wealdroam

arcon5 wrote: »

Checking its MOT history now won't do much good.

...except to perhaps establish that the seller should've known about any adverse conditions, and should therefore have disclosed them.