Feeling disheartened by these threads

baggyann

I've just posted my letter complaining to the Halifax around charges. After reading through the guide I noticed that nearly all the point that MSE put together as examples of the type of case worth presenting were relevant to my situation.
If you read these forums for long enough it starts getting quite disheartening. I haven't seen much positivity or encouragement and I know success breeds these things but lack of recent examples shouldn't mean the whole thing is a write-off surely?
I believe that the banks know it is only a matter of time before they will have to take another look at this scandal, and the only reason they have been granted the time they have is because the institutions cannot afford another large scale compensation campaign - particularly whilst PPI takes the fore-front.
I'm feeling pretty disappointed at the moment with the lack of enthusiasm, even if it is a no-hoper should that mean we encourage one another to give in?
If I have any success I will be sure to let you know, but I'm not naive, I'm aware it's a long shot.
I'm a strong believer that you have to keep challenging and keep it fresh...if it goes un-said it will never get back on the agenda.

meer53

When people are in genuine, current, financial hardship, banks will always look at helping their customers. Either by refunding charges if appropriate or by helping them in other ways. This has always happened. The PPI misselling cases being dealt with now don't affect this at all.

As the banks won the court case against "unfair charges" back in 2009, obtaining refunds for charges is reliant on your circumstances. They're not going to look to refund historic charges. Lots of people feel that because they are refunding missold PPI claims, that they should try their luck with charges too. I'm not saying that this is what is happening in your case OP.

If you are in genuine financial hardship now, your claim may be successful. If it wasn't within the last 6 months, i wouldn't hold your breath. There can't be much positivity or encouragement when the courts ruled in favour of the banks.

baggyann

I appreciate that, I guess it's just that it's such a shame. I am in genuine hardship but have been for a while now, my accounts went into recovery in the beginning of 2011 and I've been paying through a DMP for a while now so, like I said it is looking like I missed a window somewhere along the line. The sad thing is, despite being moved into collections, when I looked through the statements they sent me I amassed nearly £1000 worth of charges within the last three months. At that point they sold the loan to the DCA's.
I know that case changed everything, but the templates on here do suggest a hope that the threads don't seem to support. I have seen so much information now that I have no idea what's right or wrong, but I do know that these fees got me into a spiral of debt and it will be a huge help that these are reclaimed and used to reduce my debt. It totals nearly £6000!!
If not then I tried. But like anything, if enough people shout, someone will listen and although it went in their favour, surely enough people stamping their feet will pull it back into question?

dunstonh

I haven't seen much positivity or encouragement and I know success breeds these things but lack of recent examples shouldn't mean the whole thing is a write-off surely?

There hasnt been a known success since 2009 on unfair bank charges.

I believe that the banks know it is only a matter of time before they will have to take another look at this scandal

It is not a scandal though. They are only charging what you agreed and bank charges are avoidable. They are largely self inflicted.

There is absolutely no point getting anyone's expectation up on a bank charge reclaim. An unfair bank charges complaint will be rejected. The only areas where refunds are still occurring are goodwill refunds for first time errors by the account holder (or long time between errors) or financial hardship criteria met.

the templates on here do suggest a hope that the threads don't seem to support.

The articles havent been updated for years. However, the banks do actually tend to be quite good on financial hardship cases. The problem is that some people see themselves as being in hardship when they are not. Too much lifestyle spending and getting into debt is not viewed as hardship.

If not then I tried. But like anything, if enough people shout, someone will listen and although it went in their favour, surely enough people stamping their feet will pull it back into question?

The point is that the banks won their argument and the cost of continuing it would have been too great. The banks also changed their charges around the same time so they became packaged more as service charges and they are harder to argue. In the three years since the court case, no new arguments have been put forward. All the main consumer groups have spent a lot of money on legal advice but found nothing.

Better to be realistic and focus on the areas where there is success and what you need to do to achieve it.

baggyann

Ok, well like I said I have sent it off and will wait and see. If there's any success with it I'll be sure to let you know.
I appreciate some great legal minds have put a lot of time into this but I really believe that had it not been for the credit crisis and subsequent bailouts we wouldn't have had the same result.
I can't help my feelings though and I do think its a shame that I'm feeling so disheartened before I've even had their first response. It feels like it should at least still be going to Ombudsman stage, even if court is a no-go these days. The thing is, although I met the eligibility suggestions on the hardship template - I feel like my fighting spirit is gone and there's no support anywhere.

dunstonh

I appreciate some great legal minds have put a lot of time into this but I really believe that had it not been for the credit crisis and subsequent bailouts we wouldn't have had the same result.

Many see the PPI issue as the bank's telling off for the banking crisis. The flow of redress payments into the system from the banks helps the economy. An awful lot of that money is lucky payouts or even full on fraud by the consumer taking advantage of how easy it is to get a pay out.

Had banks had to repay some of the bank charges, the economy would have got another flow of money. However, the courts don't think that way. They just look at the law and the arguments were flawed.

It feels like it should at least still be going to Ombudsman stage, even if court is a no-go these days.

The Ombudsman also states on it's website that it will no longer consider complaints about unfair charges. It cant even force a bank to refund on hardship cases. Just encourage them to consider it again if they feel the bank is not looking at it fairly.

The thing is, although I met the eligibility suggestions on the hardship template - I feel like my fighting spirit is gone and there's no support anywhere.

Criteria differs with the banks. Your spending habits can be the biggest driver as well as how the debt was built up. If your bank statements show payments to sky tv, mobile phones, dining out etc then you severely reduce your chances of success. However, if your income is low and you are in a spiral of charges and the statements show no luxury payments then the banks are more likely to look at your case more compassionately.

You shouldn't be looking to fight the bank. You should be looking to persuade the bank that your financial position is one of hardship. If you take an adversarial approach from the start, you are less likely to get the individual at the bank on your side. You want them to feel you are a genuine case that needs help.

baggyann

I agree, like I have said on numerous occasions I have not argued due to the unfairness argument. My letter is more of a plead than an argument. I've asked them to look at the amounts and if they feel they are in agreement I have asked them to use the money to reduce my debt with them and put me in a position that I would have been had they not been charged. I have in no way been adversarial, I have not referred to anything as 'unfair' or used any language that could get their backs up. I've simply asked them to re-consider their position to see if they're prepared to reduce the debt.
I do see it as a battle though, as is natural when debt has spiralled out of control. It's difficult not to be angry when you review your accounts see within a week that you've had £300+ of charges. I repeat the excessive and unfair nature of them has not featured in any way with my letter to them, even if I do feel strongly about that. I have read and understood your points and take them on board, there's no need to keep repeating about hardship conditions, I know what they'll be looking for. I've read the guides and used the templates. I know the timescales and that everything is reliant on their discretion. I know they will either take pity or they won't and they don't have to do anything. I still feel it's worth trying, and keeping it in their minds won't harm.
I just thought these forums were here for a support, sometimes you need that when you're putting yourself out there and it's hard to feel alone in that. C'est la vie.

IainHL

As I said a little time ago over on another thread.

IainHL wrote: »

But if you look you will discover that, following the Supreme Court ruling, Martin, though disappointed, turned his attention to other matters. Though to be fair MSE did still promote the possibility of submitting a claim to have the charges refunded if you could make a convincing financial hardship case.

There really was not the push I, and I am sure many others, was hoping for to explore other legal arguments that could be used, nor much reporting of Mike Dailly's/Govan Law Centre's use of those legal arguments in a few select cases against various banks (and I fear now we are out of time for bringing new claims).

Wywth

baggyann wrote: »

I've just posted my letter complaining to the Halifax around charges. After reading through the guide I noticed that nearly all the point that MSE put together as examples of the type of case worth presenting were relevant to my situation.
If you read these forums for long enough it starts getting quite disheartening. I haven't seen much positivity or encouragement and I know success breeds these things but lack of recent examples shouldn't mean the whole thing is a write-off surely?
I believe that the banks know it is only a matter of time before they will have to take another look at this scandal, and the only reason they have been granted the time they have is because the institutions cannot afford another large scale compensation campaign - particularly whilst PPI takes the fore-front.
I'm feeling pretty disappointed at the moment with the lack of enthusiasm, even if it is a no-hoper should that mean we encourage one another to give in?
If I have any success I will be sure to let you know, but I'm not naive, I'm aware it's a long shot.
I'm a strong believer that you have to keep challenging and keep it fresh...if it goes un-said it will never get back on the agenda.

What was the basis of your complaint? :huh:

baggyann

When I say complaint it was more of a begging letter, I had two issues, one was with the fees for the current account itself (one of those package types) and the other for financial hardship - hoping they will reduce outstanding balances by the amount I had been charged for overdraft fees etc. I just wanted to review the situation to see if hey have the heart to redress the charges and fees. I'm calling them tomorrow to check they've received everything

leclerc

baggyann wrote: »

When I say complaint it was more of a begging letter, I had two issues, one was with the fees for the current account itself (one of those package types) and the other for financial hardship - hoping they will reduce outstanding balances by the amount I had been charged for overdraft fees etc. I just wanted to review the situation to see if hey have the heart to redress the charges and fees. I'm calling them tomorrow to check they've received everything

Baggyann, despite what Dunstonh has said above, I continued to get successes both before and after the bank charges cases helping people in regards to financial hardship including a large settlement for one person on here which was confirmed to site team on here.
There are two issues here and it can be interrelated because banks are pretty crap at spotting financial hardship especially when they are enjoying the benefits of the packaged accounts each month. That appears to be the last thing they care to cancel to help customers out. You need to tell the bank that you wish to downgrade to an account that does not charge a monthly fee. that piece of advice might just have saved you £150+ a year so far.
In regards to financial hardship, the bank will need to be able to see that the household income is insufficient to cover rent/mortgage, utilities(gas, water, electricity), Council tax and possible HP on the car that is used to get you to work. Loans and credit cards are irrelevant(unless there is PPI which might be worth a reclaiming letter ). The basis on this is that the charges are having an impact on the account that means that your income is insufficient to be able to cover the priority debts and that you have arrears on them. I would add that you should contact those providers if you have arrears on them especially gas and electricity who may have a scheme to help people pay their bills in financial hardship(not all companies do have such a scheme however).
You should provide an income and expenditure form to the bank to back up your assertion that the household income does not cover priority debts ie those that can cost you your home, your liberty and vital utility such as gas electricity and water.

Ultimately the bank is under no obligation to refund bank charges on the basis of financial hardship. They could, for example, freeze interest and charges or they could temporarily increase the overdraft to help in the short term and all of this means that they are compliant with their obligations under the lending code section 9(on the signature courtesy of MSE site team).