Switching to Post Office from Virgin

Boom_Boom

Could someone offer some advise on this?

My mother currently has a Virgin landline but we have found a much better deal with the Post Office for her needs.

However, in order to take up this offer there will be a charge for BT to reconnect the line? I think the charge is around £60 which is making the deal not worth it.

She used to have a BT line but I think this was disconnected when she went with Virgin.

I'm puzzled as to why there would need to be a charge if the line already exists and just needs effectively turning on.

Does anyone know if this is correct and if there is a way round this.

If this is the case I'm surprised that BT can get away with this as it's effectively attempting to prevent freedom to change supplier if with Virgin.

macman

Yes, it is correct, and the standard rate is £130, whether for a new line provision or a reconnection-the charge is the same. It isn't just a matter of 'turning it on', it will need an engineer reconnection either at the exchange or street cab.
Many providers discount the BT rate down to about £40-it depends what package you are taking. Higher value packages will secure a bigger or total reconnection discount.
It's the PO who will charge her, not BT.

Boom_Boom

Thanks for the reply

But it is due to BT why the charge is been administered, is this correct?

Seems like a money tree to me.

If for exmple I have a BT line and am with BT but then want to change providers to Post office who also use BT line - do you have to pay a reconnection fee for this?

I don't see why if someone is on virgin but previously had a BT line installed they should have to pay again, it is anti competition.

MillicentBystander

Post Office will be using Talk Talk infrastructure from next month BTW.

iniltous

If the line just needed 'turning on' then there would still be a stopped line dial tone at the old 'BT' socket, if there isn't a dial tone, then regardless of the property having service in the past, the line would need to be re-provided and someone has to pay for that, after all Openreach could have a lot of work to do, why should they do that work for free ?, in what way are BT getting away with it ?, seems to me, you want to dump VM cable and use the Post Office, what you want doesnt involve BT at all, just OR, who although part of BT group, are a separate stand alone company,
If you moved your own line from BT to the PO, there is a much smaller charge, because your line is already working, so no engineer visit needed, and most providers absorb this lower charge to get the new customer, your mothers line isn't currently working, so will need some engineering work to get it back into service, it's not anti competitive as OR would charge any provider the same, it's upto them what they charge the end user

macman

Boom_Boom wrote: »

Thanks for the reply

But it is due to BT why the charge is been administered, is this correct?

Seems like a money tree to me.

If for exmple I have a BT line and am with BT but then want to change providers to Post office who also use BT line - do you have to pay a reconnection fee for this?

I don't see why if someone is on virgin but previously had a BT line installed they should have to pay again, it is anti competition.

Because, as already explained, work is required by BT OR to make a reconnection, and BT Retail pass that charge on in turn.
BT effectively subsidise the new line provision cost by charging the same for a reconnection as a new line, and have done for years.
If you go from BT to the PO on a line that is already connected, then no charge is made, because no work is required on the line. A totally different scenario. If you did the same procedure on a disconnected line, then a reconnection charge would still be made.

Boom_Boom

macman wrote: »

Because, as already explained, work is required by BT OR to make a reconnection, and BT Retail pass that charge on in turn.
BT effectively subsidise the new line provision cost by charging the same for a reconnection as a new line, and have done for years.
If you go from BT to the PO on a line that is already connected, then no charge is made, because no work is required on the line. A totally different scenario. If you did the same procedure on a disconnected line, then a reconnection charge would still be made.

My point is why is there a need to disconnect the line all together in this way. Why not just turn it off at their end and then if customer decicdes to switch back to a provider who operates from a BT line such as post office, the post office simply advise BT and then they switch it back on again.

Then again would probably mean that BT wouldn't be collecting a fee each time and they are not going to like that. It just means the customer has no real freedom to switch providers between virgin and BT bases lines to find the best deal due to these excessive charges.

The lines should be stripped from BT's assets all together to stop this monopoly.

macman

Because you can't just 'turn it on and off' remotely. It requires an OR engineer to make or unmake a physical connection at exchange or street cab. That involves time and money. BT OR charge BT Retail the same as they do to any other provider. £40 is a fraction of the actual cost.
There aren't enough lines just to leave them unused permanantly. When new subscribers join, the existing unused lines have to be used to supply them.

iniltous

Boom_Boom wrote: »

My point is why is there a need to disconnect the line all together in this way. Why not just turn it off at their end and then if customer decicdes to switch back to a provider who operates from a BT line such as post office, the post office simply advise BT and then they switch it back on again.

Then again would probably mean that BT wouldn't be collecting a fee each time and they are not going to like that. It just means the customer has no real freedom to switch providers between virgin and BT bases lines to find the best deal due to these excessive charges.

The lines should be stripped from BT's assets all together to stop this monopoly.

Say a road had 20 houses served by one telegraph pole, and all 20 houses had BT service, over time one of the houses gives up service, goes to cable or uses mobile only..later still one of the houses asks for a second line..what do OR do, leave a connection into a house that's not using it anymore and spend a lot of money installing a new copper cable, or move the unused cable from the house that's not using it, to the house that wants two lines ? if it was your business what would you do ?
That's why sometimes houses that have ceased service in the past don't always get a reconnection but a new install, because in this example if the house that gave up service at some point re-applied they couldn't just be 'switched back on' but would have to be provided from scratch...your 'should be stripped from BT's assets' comment has already happened, thats what Openreach own and maintain
Finally shouldn't you really be objecting that the Post Office should be allowed to use Virgin Media's cable to provide service..that's the monopoly you talk about coz VM don't have to let anyone use their network, BT/OR do..

Boom_Boom

iniltous wrote: »

Say a road had 20 houses served by one telegraph pole, and all 20 houses had BT service, over time one of the houses gives up service, goes to cable or uses mobile only..later still one of the houses asks for a second line..what do OR do, leave a connection into a house that's not using it anymore and spend a lot of money installing a new copper cable, or move the unused cable from the house that's not using it, to the house that wants two lines ? if it was your business what would you do ?
That's why sometimes houses that have ceased service in the past don't always get a reconnection but a new install, because in this example if the house that gave up service at some point re-applied they couldn't just be 'switched back on' but would have to be provided from scratch...your 'should be stripped from BT's assets' comment has already happened, thats what Openreach own and maintain
Finally shouldn't you really be objecting that the Post Office should be allowed to use Virgin Media's cable to provide service..that's the monopoly you talk about coz VM don't have to let anyone use their network, BT/OR do..

Fair point about Virgin to which I agree, but that's another story. I only want to source the bst deal for my mother which happens to be the post office but now can't take advantage.

With regard to the line - Yes leave it there - a fee has been paid to have the line installed in the first place, so why remove it and collect a fee again. If the household is not renting the line anymore, by all means diable it, but to disconnect it to the extent that it needs a physical engineer is madness, and in this day and age people move round suppliers to obtain the chepest deal as loyalty is not rewarded, so I maintain that it should still be a remote switch on to activate it, if that is not possible then it should be.

The government should just take back control of the lines then which ever company the customers goes with contact the government to lease the line

macman

For the nth time, there is no 'remote switch' possible for the reasons given-there aren't surplus lines sitting around waiting for your mother, or anyone else. Disconnected lines are not 'removed', but they are disconnected to a) avoid people using the line but not paying for it and b) free up much needed capacity for other customers. BT OR can only work with the infrastructure they inherited at privatisation.
Why can't you understand that reconnection requires work to be done, and that work is therefore chargeable by OR? Many providers will absorb that charge entirely if you contract to a sufficiently high package. £60 is still less than half the standard rate. Since a normal OR call out charge is £130, I'd call £60 a bargain.