BA Blue Amex vs. Lloyds Duo Avios

tl8

Could someone explain which is better for earning Avios? Are there any advantages one has over the other?

Thanks in advance

[Deleted User]

First thing you have to understand is that there is two versions of each of these cards, a free one and one that has an annual fee:

Lloyds Avios Duo (free)
Lloyds Premier Avios Duo (£50 a year fee)
Amex BA (free)
Amex BA Premium Plus (£150 a year fee)

Many people are put off by the £150 on the Amex Premium card but it is probably 'the best' if you are going to take full advantage of it's benefits.

I'll write a very quick overview:

Lloyds cards are 'Duo' so you get an Amex and a Mastercard (both cards linked to the same account and one bill). This gives you a bit of flexibility but bear in mind that the Avios earning rate on the Mastercard is awful - I'd recommend not using it.

If you go via the link from the Avios website, you will get a sign up bonus of 15,000 Avios from the free card and 20,000 for the paid card. I'd say that the extra 5,000 bonus justifies the annual fee and you also get a slightly better earning rate on the paid card. In order to get these bonuses you must spend at least £500 a month for the first three months ON THE AMEX CARD. Spend on the Mastercard doesn't count. A few people have had problems getting these bonuses from Lloyds - if you decide to go with one of these cards then come back to me and I'll advise on how to ensure you get it.

Finally the Premier card gives you a 'companion voucher' if you spend over £15,000 a year. This is effectively a '2 for 1' voucher on BA flights bought with Avios. E.g. If you buy a return flight to the states for 40,000 plus the tax, you can take someone else with you for no extra Avios (although you will still have to pay the taxes). BUT (it's a big but) the Lloyds voucher can only be used on Economy bookings, effectively reducing it's value to nothing in my eyes (on economy flights the taxes come to almost as much as just buying a ticket! - you're better off for using Avios for long haul BUSINESS class).

Amex Cards:

Free card only earns 1 avios per pound spent, currently has a rubbish sign up bonus of only 3,000 avios and you must spend £20,000 a year to get a companion voucher. This card isn't worth it if you ask me.

£150 a year card comes with (currently) a 18,000 avios sign up bonus (you must spend £3000 in your first three months to get this) and earns 1.5 avios per pound spent (3 avios on spending directly with BA) and earns a companion voucher on only 10,000 of annual spend.

A note on companion vouchers. Lloyds one = useless/pointless. Amex one = potentially the most valuable perk in the UK travel rewards sector (if used correctly). The Amex one can be used on any booking (i.e. business) and is valid for 2 years as opposed to Lloyds 1 year.

I would recommend the Amex Premium Plus card but only if you will be able to take advantage of it's benefits. You need to spend the £10,000 in a year to get the companion voucher and you'll want to earn a decent amount on Avios to take advantage of it. (Plently of ways to earn avios - not just the credit card). If you're not going to do that then go with one of the Lloyds cards (leave the mastercard at home) but just be careful about getting the welcome bonus.

To really max Avios you need to take advantage of as many card sign up bonuses as possible. The current 18,000 bonus with the paid Amex card isn't too great (it was recently 25,000). I'd wait for that to go back up before applying if I were you. Once option while you wait is to get the Amex Gold card. It's free for the first year (can cancel before your anniversary to avoid paying the £125 annnual fee from year 2) and you will get 20,000 Amex member rewards points for spending £2k in your first three months. These points are very versatile and can be transferred to Avios at a rate of 1:1 (more during a conversion bonus period) or to many other hotel/airline programs - for example 17,000 points are enough for a (completely) free night in the May Fair hotel in London. This would normally set you back around £350 a night.

You can take this card now and use it while the Amex BA card has a low welcome bonus. A few months down the line it will be back up to 25,000 and you can apply then.

So, effectively 20,000 avios for free! It's also a pretty good card in it's own right and earns double points on supermarket and travel (flights, trains, hotels) spend. It's is a charge card, however, so you need to pay in full each month.

If you're interested in going this route then PM me and I can refer you for the card. You will get an extra 2,000 points from being referred (and I also get some too!). This is currently the best avios card on the market (albeit you are earning the avios indirectly through Amex member rewards points) at least for the first year when there is no annual fee.

Hope this helps.

[Deleted User]

From your initial post I think you are talking about the free Amex/Lloyds cards? In that case, definitely go for the Amex Gold instead as both of the free cards are a bit poo! PM me if you decide to do this and I'll send you a referral link.

tl8

Thanks for the detailed reply! Sorry I should have been a bit more specific in my initial post, I actually already have both the free BA amex and free Lloyds duo. I don't spend enough annually to justify paying the annual fees but am gradually building up my avios balance for redemption flights/upgrades.

I can't see the BA amex having any advantages over the Lloyds card? This is assuming I will not be able to spend the required £20k for the companion voucher.

The Lloyds card seems to have the same plus more partners than the BA amex (e.g. John Lewis).

I can transfer between the two accounts so I can't see any reason to continue using my BA Amex? Unless I am missing something blindingly obvious?

[Deleted User]

You are right but since the BA Amex has no annual fee, I'd recommend keeping it open. It will give you another Amex card to use for Foursquare offers (should they ever show up again).

Also Amex are a company that it's worth maintaining a relationship with (i.e. keep at least one card open). One of the reasons for this is that should you open another Amex account, they will backdate the account opening date to the year in which you opened your first Amex card.

For example, say you've had your BA Amex since 2010 and you now decide to open an Amex Gold card. The account opening date that will be reported to the Credit Agencies would be August 2010, not August 2013. This helps by effectively extending your credit history with the card and increasing the average age of your credit accounts. This is one of the things that some credit providers may take into account when you apply for credit.

Anyway, since they are both free, I'd keep them both open for now. I'd still recommend applying for an Amex Gold card though.

At £0 for the first year it is an exceptionally generous offer and there is absolutely nothing to stop you using it for a year (you'll earn more avios than either of your current cards) and cancelling in the 11th month to avoid the normal £125 fee.

You will earn as many avios as you would by spending £22,000 on your current cards! You have to make the required £2000 spend within the first three months to trigger the bonus but there are tricks to help you achieve this if required.

Let me know if you'd like a referral.

tl8

Thanks Lazyloki, I have found Amex customer service to be excellent so will definitely keep that open anyway.

I remember looking into the Gold card a few weeks ago when I saw the waived fee offer but thought I was ineligible as I am an existing cardholder?

An advantage I have just thought of is that overseas spend is double miles on the Lloyds card so that is actually quite a big factor.

[Deleted User]

Overseas spend is also double on the Gold Card - in fact many loyalty cards offer double points on foreign spend. With the Amex you would actually get triple points on foreign 'travel' spend (i.e. paying for a hotel while on holiday) as you would get the extra point for foreign spend plus the extra for travel spend.

If you were to book through the Amex Travel site (will be same price as booking direct) you will get another point per pound for that too (total 4 points per £)!

The only other benefit worth mentioning is that you get a couple of free airport lounge passes if that's your thing.

In answer to your question, no, being an existing cardmember will not stop you getting the Gold or any other Amex cards - I have three (Gold, Platinum Cashback and Starwood SPG Card).

Without going into too much detail the only thing you have to think about when applying for additional Amex cards is that you will not receive the sign up bonus if you have had another card from the same 'group' in the last six months.

For example you currently wouldn't get a sign up bonus on the BA Premium Plus card as you already have an Avios earning card - you'd have to cancel your current one and wait six months to reapply to get the bonus.

I currently have the Gold (a Member Reward earning card) so if I was to apply for the Platinum Charge Card (the £450/year fee - also a member reward point earning card) I wouldn't get a sign up bonus - I'd have to cancel and wait for 6 months. Let me be clear that they may very well approve me for the card, I just wouldn't get the sign up bonus which is, after all, what us points hoarders are after!

Because your current card is an Avios earning card, there is no restriction on you applying for and getting the sign up bonus on the Gold card as they are in separate 'groups'. The SPG card and Platinum Cashback are stand-alone cards. Having these doesn't change eligibility for bonuses on the Avios or MR cards.

If that makes sense!

Amex are more than happy for you to have several cards from their line, I believe the normal limit is that you're not allowed to have more than two credit cards and two charge cards at any one time.

zerog

I presume you're aware that using avios for flights does not include the high fees and taxes that will have to be paid on top.

If you can spend over £10000 per year and want the 2-4-1 voucher, it is always a better deal to pay the £150 for the BA premium amex.

For Lloyds, you need to work out how much one avios is worth to you, then decide whether the increased earning rate is worth the £50 fee

[Deleted User]

zerog wrote: »

I presume you're aware that using avios for flights does not include the high fees and taxes that will have to be paid on top.

If you can spend over £10000 per year and want the 2-4-1 voucher, it is always a better deal to pay the £150 for the BA premium amex.

For Lloyds, you need to work out how much one avios is worth to you, then decide whether the increased earning rate is worth the £50 fee

High fees can be avoided with a bit of planning by going ex-EU, especially if you can make use of Reward Flight Saver destinations.

With BA you're never going to get it as cheap as some airlines but they can be brought down to acceptable levels. My opinion is that if I can fly long-haul business for the same as I would pay for an economy ticket then I'm happy. I rarely bother with business for short-haul and the BA Reward Flight Saver scheme can be an absolute bargain, especially if you're starting your journey from outside of London.

Stephen_C.

Lazyloki wrote: »

if you decide to go with one of these cards then come back to me and I'll advise on how to ensure you get it.

Could you expand on this? I'm thinking of getting one of these cards.

[Deleted User]

Stephen_C. wrote: »

Could you expand on this? I'm thinking of getting one of these cards.

Are you talking about the Lloyds card specifically?

Lloyds have been very sneaky in the past about giving out the bonus Avios. The marketing blurb states that you have to spend £500 per month for the first three months on the Amex card (spend on the other one doesn't count towards this target).

The problem is that nowhere do they specifically state how they define a 'month'. i.e. is it calendar month, statement month or from the date of account opening.

The one that counts, in fact, is the month from the date on which you were approved for the card. Now this is very sneaky of Lloyds as there is no way of knowing the date you were approved for the card. Sure, you could call and ask them but, frankly, I wouldn't trust their response.

The accepted method of ensuring that you get the bonus, therefore, is:

Month 1: Make a note of the date on which you applied for the card and ensure you spend the £500 before that date next month. For example, say you applied on the 1st of September and your card arrived on the 14th. You might have been approved for the card at any time between those dates so it would be best to assume the worst and make the £500 spend before the 1st of October.

Months 2 and 3: Again, without knowing exactly which date you were approved it's safest to make the £500 spend between the date on which your card approved and the date on which you applied. i.e. make the month 2 spend between 14th October and 1st November and the month 3 spend between 14th November and 1st of December.

This shouldn't be necessary but there have been many people who have been caught out by Lloyds and their fairly underhand tactics as far as bonus avios goes. If it were me, I'd get the card, operate it as above for 3 months (without spending more than I had to) to bag the bonus and then close the account (obviously make sure the avios have been posted to your Avios.com account before you cancel!)

I understand that some people may struggle to make the £500 spend in such a small window so I would suggest simply buying £500 worth of gift vouchers for places you would be spending money anyway (for example Tesco or whatever supermarket you use). That way you hit the spend bonus and can use the vouchers in lieu of cash/credit cards until the next month.

Hope that makes sense.