Not fit for purpose??

ThumbRemote

earthstorm wrote: »

be very hard as if he was told at the store it was sold and seen and had a factory fault and he still purchased then they store has covered themselves

Azari wrote: »

This is an interesting situation, legally.

A shop is entitled to sell something 'as seen' and thus not subject to normal consumer protection law.

But what is the case if it is sold 'as seen' when it is sealed in a way that the customer cannot see it? Selling something 'as seen' does not protect you if you have deliberately hidden something. Selling a gold bar that was actually lead coated with gold would still be fraud.

Oli.s wrote: »

I wonder if it would be argued that he did infact have opportunity to inspect it in the shop, it seems from your post that he simply chose not to because it would make it hard for him to transport as aposed to being denied the opportunity to inspect it by the shop.

I believe these three responses are all incorrect.

The Sale of Goods Act has no provision for 'sold as seen'. Section 14 covers this, and the only provisions for this sort of situation are
a) If the fault is "specifically drawn to the buyer’s attention before the contract is made"
b) "where the buyer examines the goods before the contract is made, which that examination ought to reveal"
c) "in the case of a contract for sale by sample, which would have been apparent on a reasonable examination of the sample"

The fault was not specifically drawn to the purchasers attention. There was general notice of a fault, but the fault itself was not specifically drawn to the purchasers attention.

The buyer did not examine the goods. It makes no difference whether he had the opportunity to - he did not.

The purchase was not a sale by sample.

Therefore the buyer is completely entitled to return the mattress for a full refund, under the standard provisions of the sale of goods act.

earthstorm

ThumbRemote wrote: »

I believe these three responses are all incorrect.

The Sale of Goods Act has no provision for 'sold as seen'. Section 14 covers this, and the only provisions for this sort of situation are
a) If the fault is "specifically drawn to the buyer’s attention before the contract is made"
b) "where the buyer examines the goods before the contract is made, which that examination ought to reveal"
c) "in the case of a contract for sale by sample, which would have been apparent on a reasonable examination of the sample"

The fault was not specifically drawn to the purchasers attention. There was general notice of a fault, but the fault itself was not specifically drawn to the purchasers attention.

The buyer did not examine the goods. It makes no difference whether he had the opportunity to - he did not.

The purchase was not a sale by sample.

Therefore the buyer is completely entitled to return the mattress for a full refund, under the standard provisions of the sale of goods act.

with a factory vacuum sealed item, even the retailer may not even know what the fault is, so he just relays what he has been informed, so he is telling the customer the information he has at hand. so it is a difficult thing with vacuum packed items, unless its clearly visible through the plastic wrap.

ThumbRemote

earthstorm wrote: »

with a factory vacuum sealed item, even the retailer may not even know what the fault is, so he just relays what he has been informed, so he is telling the customer the information he has at hand. so it is a difficult thing with vacuum packed items, unless its clearly visible through the plastic wrap.

While that may be true, as far as the law is concerned it's irrelevant. The OP still has the right to take the item back.

You could also argue that a retailer shouldn't be selling items without knowing exactly what they're selling.

earthstorm

ThumbRemote wrote: »

While that may be true, as far as the law is concerned it's irrelevant. The OP still has the right to take the item back.

You could also argue that a retailer shouldn't be selling items without knowing exactly what they're selling.

True, but retailers can be done over the same as consumers by their suppliers. I know through experience.

been using same supplier for over 10 years and has a few lots of seconds/faulty items. some are easily repaired/fixed other can just be sold as seconds/faulty.

Last year he contacted me to say he had a selection of disney seconds ( mainly with small water marks or soiled packaging) no problem had this sort of seconds before, so asked him to send them ( i dont pay until the 30th of following month), but when i got them only 30% were able to be sold as seconds the rest were beyond repair. neither to say he never got paid for them which he agreed to waive the invoice.

so maybe the retailer have been told the mattresses were slightly water damaged, being sealed he could not verify, so if he told the buyer that then he would cover themselves even if their was a little water damage, but even if he is told it is factory fault and he states this to the buyer he has also covered himself by telling the buyer their is a fault

ThumbRemote

earthstorm wrote: »

so maybe the retailer have been told the mattresses were slightly water damaged, being sealed he could not verify, so if he told the buyer that then he would cover themselves even if their was a little water damage, but even if he is told it is factory fault and he states this to the buyer he has also covered himself by telling the buyer their is a fault

No, the retailer has not covered themselves by saying there is a fault. This is the point I made earlier. The retailer must give details of the fault, or the buyer is quite at liberty to reject the item.

earthstorm

ThumbRemote wrote: »

No, the retailer has not covered themselves by saying there is a fault. This is the point I made earlier. The retailer must give details of the fault, or the buyer is quite at liberty to reject the item.

if the wholesaler tells the retailer it has a factory fault and the retailer tells the customer it has a factory fault then he is covered as he has told the customer the same as he has been told by his supplier. It is clear you are not in the retail business

Pinkypants

I'm pretty sure you have to know what the fault is, because if you accept a product with a fault and then something else crops up within 6 months then the SOGA still applies. It just won't apply to the initial fault.

If you buy an oven with a mark on the glass or the clock doesn't work but then later on the thermostat goes wrong, you're still covered for that.

Think is fine to sell stuff that's not A1 perfect condition eg scratches, marks, but goods still have to be fit for purpose.

MamaMoo_2

earthstorm wrote: »

if the wholesaler tells the retailer it has a factory fault and the retailer tells the customer it has a factory fault then he is covered as he has told the customer the same as he has been told by his supplier. It is clear you are not in the retail business

Not correct. Sorry. If it has a factory fault then the supplier should tell the retailer what that is so they can then inform the buyer. If the seller doesn't inform the buyer, it's the buyer's responsibility to find out what that fault is before selling it.

The point Pinkypants makes is crucial here...

Pinkypants wrote: »

if you accept a product with a fault and then something else crops up within 6 months then the SOGA still applies. It just won't apply to the initial fault.

If the retailer are unaware as to the fault, then how can they decide what's covered and what isn't? If the specific fault hasn't been drawn to a customer's attention, then they haven't agreed to the purchase with that specific fault.

It's also the retailer's responsibility that when selling an item "as seen", either the item (and the fault) can actually be seen, or the fault is specifically drawn to the buyer's attention.

There's also the possibility that the retailer knew full well the issue and misrepresented the item by omitting a very important detail: the factory fault renders the item unusable. In this case (fault rendering item unusable) I'd expect either the retailer to make this known prior to sale, or accept items back if they didn't know.

I have bought lots of items with a "factory fault" in my time from a local bargain shop. FF usually is a minor issue but it does not significantly affect the products usability.
Eg patterned blanket where the pattern messed up, flat pack wardrobes with the holes drilled incorrectly, a duvet that had an issue with the stitching, a toaster where the numbers were the wrong way around on the heat setting. All faults were drawn to my attention by the advertising on/next to the item, and reiterated at POS.

ThumbRemote

earthstorm wrote: »

if the wholesaler tells the retailer it has a factory fault and the retailer tells the customer it has a factory fault then he is covered as he has told the customer the same as he has been told by his supplier. It is clear you are not in the retail business

As I have already said, and others have reiterated below, you are wrong. The sale of goods act states of faults:
"(a)which is specifically drawn to the buyer’s attention before the contract is made,"

Note the word "specifically". The details of the fault must be given.

It does not matter what the retailer has been told by their supplier - the two are completely separate contracts.

olias

Sorry, am I being thick here. Why can he not just turn it over so the fault is on the other side? Or does the fault run all the way through from front to back?

Olias