Parking Eye LBA

ticketmaster

Guys

Any help & advise very much appreciated.

Got a PE 'invoice' last year at Motorway Services as I was the regitered keeper at the time. Ignored everything as advised until LBA arrived. Having read Daisy's post sent letter to PE informing them that their LBA did not comply with the Practice Direction on Pre-action conduct and have since received their 6 page standard reply requesting information from myself.

Would I be safe to now ignore again as I have already informed them they are non compliant?

Thank you in advance.

spacey2012

They will steam ahead regardless with court papers, it is only a county court and once the papers arrive acknowledge them use on of the standard defences.
In the meantime it looks like we may have found a way to blow them out of the water in to small pieces with a challenge on the admissibility of their ANPR camera system, destroying any foundation evidence they have for the case.
It is just going to need someone to run it through as a defence and subsequent appeal and if it works they are seagull food.
That is if they stupid enough to accept the challenge, I think they are.
So keep watch.

zzzLazyDaisy

Hi,

I have just clocked your post.

I am not well at the moment and not spending a lot of time on the forums. If your could tell me the date on their letter please, and I will get back to you before your 14 days runs out.

Also WITHOUT GIVING ANY IDENTIFYING DETAILS AND WITHOUT SAYING IF THE REGISTERED KEEPER WAS DRIVING:

It would also help if you could provide the following information:

Does the registered owner live in Scotland?
Date of parking 'breach'
If it was a PCN through the post with photo's - date of PCN
If it was a windscreen ticket - date of follow up letter to registered keeper

Also could you provide some information about the circumstances of the parking charge - was it a motorway? Retail park Supermarket - and if so - morrisons? Aldi?

Also a bit of information about the reason for the charge - eg overstay? if so how long?

Finally, is there any Equality Act element? By this I mean was the driver or passenger suffering from any long term health problem that means they need to take longer? Pregnant? Elderly/disabled? Was the vehicle registered to a disabled person? Displaying a blue badge?

Also, could you let us know any discrepancies between the standard template letter and your own. If you go to post 18 & 20 on this thread you will see what I mean

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4730029


I will check back later this evening.

Daisy

zzzLazyDaisy

spacey2012 wrote: »

In the meantime it looks like we may have found a way to blow them out of the water in to small pieces with a challenge on the admissibility of their ANPR camera system, destroying any foundation evidence they have for the case.
It is just going to need someone to run it through as a defence and subsequent appeal and if it works they are seagull food.
That is if they stupid enough to accept the challenge, I think they are.
So keep watch.

Stacey - on the ANPR point - I understand that the sort of CCTV/ANPR cameras that PPCs use have to be registered with the ICO (information commissioners Office) - being registered for the use of CCTV/ANPR to deter and detect crime doesn't count because parking charges are a civil matter not a criminal matter. If their CCTV/ANPR is not properly registered they would also be in breach of the BPA CoP. I don't have time to follow this up, but as you are the forum ANPR Diva, I thought you might be interested?

Daisy

ticketmaster

Daisy

Thank you for your response and below are more details as requested:

The registered owner is myself and does not live in Scotland.

All letters were ignored as advised at the time until Letter Before Action arrived.

I have not told PE who was driving so they are targeting myself as the registered keeper (I no longer own the vehicle but did at the time).

The parking 'breach' was 14 November 2012.

Date of 1st PCN through post with photos was 19 November 2012, Reminder 28th November 2012, Further reminder 30th December 2012, Letter Before Action 1 July 2013, First response to my reply letter dated 21 July 2013 & Standard PE response (6 pages identical to your link) dated 5 August 2013.

It was on a motorway service area for an overstay of 42 minutes. No ticket was purchased but money spent in service area (free for 2 hours).

There are no Equality Act elements. No health problems, pregnant, disability or blue badge etc.

Thank you in advance for your help & advice.

zzzLazyDaisy

Okay thanks.

In the next post please can you post the wording of the LBA (no indentifying features, just the body of the LBA warning you of court action and why.

Please post your acknowedgement letter in the next post, so we can see where we are up to.

Then in the next post, please go through their template letter and post any discrepancies or differences. You'll find their template here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4709595

I will be offline for a couple of days, but don't worry you have bags of time.

Dx

ticketmaster

Daisy

Thanks again. The wording of the LBA from PE is below and my response which was obtained from this forum:

On the XXXXXX 2012 we made you aware as the registered keeper of this vehicle, you had become liable for a Parking Charge Notice (please see above reference), which concerned a Parking event dated XXXXXX 2012 at Welcome Break Leicester Forest East (North). This was because the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act required for Keeper Liability had not been satisfied. Further to this, we advised you that the amount payable was £100.00 for the Parking Charge Notice and you had 14 days to make this payment or further action would be taken. Therefore the amount outstanding from you, the registered keeper, is £100.00.

Parking Eye is still not in receipt of this payment. As such, we must inform you that unless payment of £100.00 is made within the next 14 days further action will be taken and court proceedings will be issued, which will incur further costs.

My response was:

I am in receipt of your letter dated XXXXXX 2013 relating to the above Parking Charge Notice.

As the Registered Keeper I wish to point out that the Claimant’s LBC does not comply with the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct so as the Registered Keeper I am unable to comply with the Practice Direction until the Claimant has provided the further information requested in this letter.

It is necessary for the parties in any dispute to exhaust all other options before resorting to court proceedings. I XXXXX XXXXX demand that you issue me with a POPLA verification code to enable me to refer this matter for independent adjudication. I understand that you do not recognise the 35 day rule stipulated in the British Parking Association Code of Practice and this request should not cause any procedural problems for your company...”

I wish to remind the Claimant of its obligation under para 8 of the Practice Direction to consider an ‘appropriate form of Alternative Dispute Resolution (ADR)’ and invite the Claimant to issue a POPLA Verification Code since that is the appropriate form of ADR set up to deal with parking charge disputes.


As the Registered Keeper I also require a detailed breakdown of the Claimant’s pre-estimate of loss as without this information it is impossible for the me as the Regestired Keeper to provide a Response to the Letter Before Claim.

I also require the Claimant to provide a list in the Letter Before Claim of all the documents the Claimant is going to rely on in court. That list was not present in the LBC and I demand that the Claimant send it to me, the Registered Keeper, and I am unable to comply with the Practice Direction until the Claimant sends me this information.

I also request you to provide me with the following information so that I can prepare and provide a full response to the Claimant's LBC:

1. The full name and address details of the party contracting with the Claimant for the provision of car park management services.

2. The full name and address details of the land owner, if different from 1.

3. An itemised breakdown of any losses the Claimant have incurred as a result of this parking event.

4. An itemised breakdown of any losses the party contracting with the Claimant and (if different) the landowner have incurred as a result of this parking event.

5. An explanation as to how the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 making the keeper liable have been satisfied. I consider the Claimant's Parking Charge Notice to be invalid on the grounds that it does not identify the creditor, contrary to paragraph 9 (2) (h) of Schedule 4.

If the Claimant is not the landowner, please explain ParkingEye's standing to act as Claimant in bringing these proceedings and provide a copy of the contract between the Claimant and the Landowner authorising it do so.

I also inform the Claimant that I require a reply within 14 days and can confirm that as the Registered Keeper I will provide a full written Response as required within 30 days of receiving the information requested in this letter.

Alternatively, you may wish to bring this matter to a close by canceling the Parking Charge Notice. If, however, you choose to pursue it further then please be assured I will defend my position robustly.

The 6 page reply from PE is identical to the one in your link.

Once again, Thank you for your assistance.

Umkomaas

From above post

On the XXXXXX 2012 we made you aware as the registered keeper of this vehicle, you had become liable for a Parking Charge Notice (please see above reference), which concerned a Parking event dated XXXXXX 2012 at Welcome Break Leicester Forest East (North). This was because the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act required for Keeper Liability had not been satisfied. Further to this, we advised you that the amount payable was £100.00 for the Parking Charge Notice and you had 14 days to make this payment or further action would be taken. Therefore the amount outstanding from you, the registered keeper, is £100.00.

Am I having a 'senior' or does the above highlighted not make much sense?

zzzLazyDaisy

Hi ticketmaster, did the letter from PE really say 'PoFA has NOT been satisfied'? If so they cannot pursue you as the registered keeper. End of.

On the offchance that it was your typo, here is a letter that you might want to send to PE

---

Dear Sirs

I refer to your template letter dated [xxxx] in response to my Acknowledgement of your letter before action.

It seems to me that your letter is a (not very thinly veiled) attempt to abuse and manipulate the court process to intimidate me into paying your punative and unreasonable charge.

At the same time your letter seeks to avoid and deflect attention from the steps set out in the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct.

In particularly, you state in your letter:

"Please note that this matter will soon be being conducted in the County Court. Therefore, from this point all submissions should comply with County Court procedure. Standard procedure dictates that the defendant will defend their case, the claimant will reply, and both sides will submit a witness statement and all supporting documents to an allocated County Court. You will be required to submit a defence to the court."

This is very clearly intended to mislead the recipient into believing that the time for complying with the pre-action conduct procedure has passed - when in fact it has not yet even started - owing to your initial failure to comply with the Practice Direction regarding the content and information to be provided in the letter before claim, and your continuing refusal and/or failure to do so.

The Practice Direction is quite clear; as a corporate legal department writing to an ordinary person not legally represented, it is your obligation to make me aware of the Practice Direction. Instead of which you appear to be intent on obfuscation. It is also notable that you complain that you have had more than 20 people alerting you to the failings in your letter before action - yet you continue to send out defective letters. The only possible conclusion is that this is deliberate conduct on your part.

In the circumstances I must remind you that under the Practice Direction the parties must complete the pre-action steps before the Claimant starts proceedings. Please therefore provide the information prescribed in Annex A para 2 of the Practice Direction, together with the additional information requested in my letter of [insert date] by return. I shall then seek advice with regard to providing a Response to you within 30 days, in accordance with the pre-action steps set out in the Practice Direction.

PLEASE NOTE: If I do not hear from you within 7 days of the date of this letter, I shall presume that you have cancelled the charge and I will consider this matter closed. Should you later seek to start court proceedings, I shall produce this correspondence to the court, and ask the court to exercise its power to invoke sanctions and costs against the claimant pursuant to the provisions of para 4 of the Practice Direction on non-compliance and sanctions.

Yours faithfully

PRINT NAME

ticketmaster

Daisy

Thanks for your assistance once again.

Sorry but I must have had a senior moment and it was indeed a typing error on my part - apologies for the confusion.

I will go ahead with a copy of your letter as advised.

Many thanks.

zzzLazyDaisy

Beaman please don't hijack someone else's thread as it causes confusion. You already have your own thread and have received advice on there. So please delete your post above and post it again on your own thread and someone will come and help you.

Daisy