PE LBA, I replied, they sent FAQ

outlook2013

Hi all, new member here but been on pepipoo for a while now.

I had a PE LBA recently. I replied asking for a list of documents and whatnot so I could responsd fully (wasn't aware of the PD mentioned in the other thread at this stage, naturally their LBA didn't mention it!)

They replied today with a generic copy and paste FAQ that has absolutely nothing to do with anything whatsoever in my letter.

I've drafted up another letter, based on the PD and the other advice in this thread.

Should I post it here for checking? (Identifying details removed, obviously)

As an aside, but also related to this and any potential ADR, can POPLA be used a this late stage? I know that POPLA won't accept any appeals, but am I right in saying that a BPA member can issue a POPLA code at any time at their own discretion, regardless of time scale?

zzzLazyDaisy

Hi Outlook

Re POPLA - yes the PPC can give a verification code at any time (but PE will probably refuse your request anyway, as they don't have much regard for court process!)

If you'd like to post your letter here (with any identifying info removed) I'm happy to have a look at it.

Dx

Stroma

It's a typical response by them, they use the same generic rubbish with any challenge to them.

born_3

Could you please c&p your letter as I'm in exactly the same boat and wouldn't mind some direction.

zzzLazyDaisy

born_3 wrote: »

Could you please c&p your letter as I'm in exactly the same boat and wouldn't mind some direction.

Please can you start your own thread, read this guidance

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4689195

and have a go at preparing an ACKNOWLEDGMENT to their LBA

Someone will be along to help when you have got that far.

born_3

New thread started.

outlook2013

Thanks all,

Thanks for the info on POPLA. Don't expect PE to give a code, but the way their letter is phrased implies that it's impossible for POPLA to be used, so it's good to know that's not the case.

Anyhow, here's the letter:

I write regarding your recent letter dated XX/XX/XXXX, in reply to my letter dated XX/XX/XX, following your “Letter Before Action”, dated XX/XX/XXXX.

I note with interest that you have failed to actually respond to my letter and my requests, instead providing a generic copy and pasted ‘FAQ’, the vast majority of which is entirely unrelated to both your claim and my letter.

I bring to your attention the Practice Direction on Pre-action Conduct (hereinafter ‘PD’), and I bring your particular attention to Section 7 of the aforementioned document, which relates to Letters Before Claims.

Regarding your original “Letter Before Action”, I note that it fails to comply with this section of the PD on several counts, specifically the failure to notify myself, an individual, to the document itself. Your letter also fails to state the facts your claim is based on, which documents you plan to rely on and how your loss has been calculated.

Section 8 of the PD also sets out details on Alternative Dispute Resolution (‘ADR’), which your Letter Before Action fails to mention. Fortunately, as a member of the British Parking Association (‘BPA’), an independent resolution solution is open to the claimant, namely the Parking On Private Land Appeals Service (‘POPLA’). The defendant therefore invites you to issue a POPLA code for this dispute to be settled without the need for court action.

Alternatively, you may simply cancel the parking charge.

If the claimant wants to continue with its claim then the defendant requires the following documents so they can fully respond:

(1) the name and address of the person, company or legal entity by whom the claimant were instructed to manage the car park;

(2) the names and addresses of the owners of the land on which the car park is situated if different to (2);

(3) evidence establishing both the freehold ownership of the land and who holds any relevant leasehold interests (e.g. copies of entries at the Land Registry, copies of any unregistered leases, etc.);

(4) a copy of the contract by which the claimant were instructed to manage the car park as clauses within this contract will form a material section of the defence, especially in regards to payments made to your client;

(5) a copy of the contract that the driver is alleged to have agreed to, including indications of which terms the claimant considers “core” and reasons therefore

(6) an explanation on what the sum being claimed is based on (e.g. breach of contract, contractual sum, trespass)

(7) a full and detailed breakdown of the actual losses (if any) alleged to have been caused to your principal/the landowner as a consequence of the alleged parking incident;

(8) a full and detailed breakdown of the actual losses (if any) alleged to have been caused to your own company as a consequence of the alleged parking incident;

(9) confirmation that your Notice To Keeper was fully compliant with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012. I bring to your particular attention Section 9(2)(h) of said act, which states that that the creditor should be explicitly and clearly identified.

(10) the documents on which the claimant intends to rely on (which, as noted, were required to have been included in your original Letter Before Action)

(11) details of the signage at the location, specifically showing the locations of the signage and their wording at the time of the alleged parking infringement

[Redacted]

(13) A full VAT invoice for the alleged parking charge

I demand a full and proper response to the above points, together with the requested documents, within 14 days, and do not expect another generic, copy and pasted reply which fails to address the points.

Alternatively, again, you may simply cancel the parking charge.

Just a few notes that may or may not be relevant:

- I am VAT registered and this Charge occurred in the process of a business trip
- I've asked for signage details because I feel this case can be defended on that alone should it go to court: There's no entry signs, and half the car park is split form the other half is not signed at all
- The incident occurred at night and the signage that is present is not lit
- The signage is very, very outdated and still talks of clamping.
- The signage does not comply with the BPA code in many respects (the lack of entry signs being one such example)

For the record, I have already returned to the parking location and obtained pictures and video.

zzzLazyDaisy

Beautiful.... just beautiful.... :j

If you haven't already sent the letter, you could add something like this as a parting shot...

"Finally I draw the Claimant's attention to para 4 concerning the court’s powers to impose sanctions for failure to comply with the Practice Direction, ask you to note that should the Claimant start proceedings, the Defendant will produce a copy of this letter, and all subsequent letters, to the court."

I would also say (for anyone reading) that as this is Acknowledgment stage, you don't have to worry too much about addressing the extra list of documents and questions that Outlook has done. You can can pick and choose the main ones that are important to you, or even keep it short and punchy, and just address the information missing from the LBC (LBA). This is because there is next step in the Pre-action Conduct which gives you an opportunity to go into more detail.

Now all you have to do is wait....

They won't comply with the PD requirements for the letter before claim - they can't, because that would mean:

a) inviting you to take this matter to POPLA (they know from your Acknowledgement that you are clued up - so they'd lose at POPLA)
b) providing you with details of how their 'loss' is calculated (they have no loss and the £100 has no justification)
c) giving you a list of all the documents they intend to show the court (which tells you all the documents they DO NOT intend to show the court - such as the contract with the landowner giving them authority to levy a charge on customers and take court action against customers)

So they will either:

1 Send you more non-compliant clap-trap, which you will add to your store of letters to show the court in support of an order for costs against them, should they be foolish enough to take you to court; or

2 decide you are too much of a 'hot potato' and cancel the charge.

Keep your eye on the ball and don't let them off the hook - if they haven't replied within 14 days, send them a short reminder, requiring their response and reminding them of their obligations under the Practice Direction and the sanctions for failing to comply. They are already struggling under a paperwork mountain of their own making, they really don't have the time for all this legal stuff.

Remember the object is to keep at them and badger them to comply with the Practice Direction - this is not an optional extra, it is part of the court process, so taking the bull by the horns puts you in the driving seat.

Oh... an keep us informed of your progress :-)

Dx

outlook2013

Thanks for the feedback Daisy, will be sending it off tomorrow

fil_cad

Ooooh this one is more interesting than coronation st ever was ((-: cant wait for the next episode. :money:

outlook2013

Well it's past the 14 days now and I've not received anything.

Fortunately I have proof of posting.

Notably, I sent an appeal on the same day dealing with the same issue and they've replied to that one quickly enough.

Although I did get two copies of their reply to that appeal. I wonder if they copied and pasted and forgot to change the the location?

In any case, next steps? Just wait? Or send them a gentle reminder?