why do cheques take so long?

derrick

opinions4u wrote: »

You cannot provide a single example of a personal payment being made from a UK bank account to a UK bank account that takes 3 working days.

Not sure how I can show that, but I do know it has happened to me several times over the last 12 months or so when attempting FP as per my post you quoted. Are you telling me this has never happened to you?

From this Halifax page: - "The service runs alongside the existing payment schemes in the UK such as Bacs ?
and CHAPS**. ... Bacs payments may take up to three working days. ..."


From the link in the post you quoted: - "John should be able to access funds within a couple of hours of a payment being made but at any stage either the sending or receiving bank may carry out additional checks on transactions, which could delay a small number of payments. "

My bold which is when it goes via BACS and takes 3 working days.


My point which you seem to be ignoring, is why banks will only "work" 5 days when transactions such as BACS are automated and should not close on weekends.

Would you stand for it if your electricity company said on Friday midnight, sorry we don't work weekends, power off, wait until Monday and we will turn the power back on? I very much doubt it, but we put up with it from the institutions that nearly made the country bankrupt.


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antrobus

derrick wrote: »

...From this Halifax page: - "The service runs alongside the existing payment schemes in the UK such as Bacs ?
and CHAPS**. ... Bacs payments may take up to three working days. ..."....

That page simply shows just the search results for 'BACS' on the Halifax site. By the looks of things, they haven't updated the index in a while. If you actually select any of the results, none of the pages makes any reference to BACS at all.

Anyway, if Faster Payments are available, why would you want to use BACS?

derrick

antrobus wrote: »

That page simply shows just the search results for 'BACS' on the Halifax site. By the looks of things, they haven't updated the index in a while. If you actually select any of the results, none of the pages makes any reference to BACS at all.

Anyway, if Faster Payments are available, why would you want to use BACS?

Yes I know the page then takes you nowhere, I was just attempting to show the "3 day rule".

It isn't the fact re FP being available, and if you read my post they do not always go as FP, it is " why banks will only "work" 5 days when transactions such as BACS are automated and should not close on weekends."

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antrobus

noh wrote: »

Since 1/1/2012 outgoing BACS transfers are only available to business customers. ....

I believe it's a question of Regulation 70 of the Payment Services Regulations 2009, i.e.

the payer’s payment service provider must ensure that the amount of the payment transaction is credited to the payee’s payment service provider’s account by the end of the business day following the time of receipt of the payment order.

Ergo any bank that gave a personal customer the option of using BACS would be in breach of Regulation 70.

antrobus

derrick wrote: »

Yes I know the page then takes you nowhere, I was just attempting to show the "3 day rule".....

No one doubts that the "3 day rule" applies to BACS. The issue is that BACS isn't available to personal banking customers anymore because of the PSR 2009.

noh

derrick wrote: »

BACS are available to personal customers as well, my bank,(Halifax), offer them, whenever I have used BACS the money is debited immeadiately but not received until 3 "WORKING" days later when it is credited. Not all banks and building societies operate FP, especially building societies who, despite saying they do, don't, as the payment arrives at the end of the next "WORKING" day, and if started on a Friday means Monday, i.e 3 days loss of interest!
CHAPS, despite someone who disputes, is an extortionate charge, up to £40.

FP don't always go, sometimes a window will pop up saying something along the lines of, "this payment cannot go immeadiately but will be at your bank within 3 WORKING days, i.e. BACS!

Some banks do, (or used to), have ludicrously low limits.

If it goes next day it is not FP! Faster Payment Rules.

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Halifax does not now offer BACS to personal customers.
When BACS was available to personal customers, before 1/1/2012, it was a 3 day process as described.

If a payment goes the next day it is a FP.
The FP rules require the payment to reach the destination account by close of business the following working day.

See note at the bottom of the payment limits and timeframe tab here http://www.halifax.co.uk/onlinebankinghelp/fasterpayments.asp

derrick

noh wrote: »

If a payment goes the next day it is a FP.
The FP rules require the payment to reach the destination account by close of business the following working day.

If it goes next day is not FP! FP requires within 2 hours, from FP Rules

"John should be able to access funds within a couple of hours of a payment being made but at any stage either the sending or receiving bank may carry out additional checks on transactions, which could delay a small number of payments. "

My bold which is when it goes via BACS and takes 3 working days.

I have already put this info in post #32, which you appear to have missed.


Certain building societies operate the "by close of business the following working day.", this is not FP!

Question still not answered, why does it have to be a "working day" when the payments are allegedly FP, (FP are 24/7)?
If they cannot go on a Saturday, Sunday, BH or within 2 hours on a "working day" then they cannot under any stretch of the imagination be classed as FP!

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JuicyJesus

Actually the FPS timescale is "next working day" maximum, 2 hours being the time most payments take to hit.

noh

derrick wrote: »

If it goes next day is not FP! FP requires within 2 hours, from FP Rules

"John should be able to access funds within a couple of hours of a payment being made but at any stage either the sending or receiving bank may carry out additional checks on transactions, which could delay a small number of payments. "

My bold which is when it goes via BACS and takes 3 working days.

I have already put this info in post #32, which you appear to have missed.


Certain building societies operate the "by close of business the following working day.", this is not FP!

Question still not answered, why does it have to be a "working day" when the payments are allegedly FP, (FP are 24/7)?
If they cannot go on a Saturday, Sunday, BH or within 2 hours on a "working day" then they cannot under any stretch of the imagination be classed as FP!

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I did not miss your previous post.

You are incorrect.
As stated by others the rules of the FP system are that the payment must reach the destination account by the end of the following working day.
BACS is no longer used for personal payments. It cannot be because it does not conform to the PSR
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2009/209/part/6/crossheading/execution-time-and-value-date/made

rb10

How many people will have to tell you before you realise that what you've been saying is completely incorrect?!

derrick wrote: »

If it goes next day is not FP! FP requires within 2 hours, from FP Rules

"John should be able to access funds within a couple of hours of a payment being made but at any stage either the sending or receiving bank may carry out additional checks on transactions, which could delay a small number of payments. "

My bold which is when it goes via BACS and takes 3 working days.

I have already put this info in post #32, which you appear to have missed.

No.

If a payment is delayed, then it will just be held for fraud checks, and then sent by FP. This will typically happen within around 12 hours of the payment being requested (i.e. the payment request goes into a 'pending' list before a bank employee approves it).

Once approved by the sending bank, it will be sent straight away by FP, and will arrive at the destination within 2 hours (but generally instantly).

derrick wrote: »

Certain building societies operate the "by close of business the following working day.", this is not FP!

No. Once again, you are incorrect.

Where a bank/building society does this, it will still go by FP. Rather than sending the payment instantly, they simply make a note that you've requested this payment, and then send all their outgoing payments together in the early hours of the following morning.

The payments are still sent by FP, and will typically arrive instantly (i.e. in the early hours of the morning after the payment is requested).

This is done for a couple of reasons - firstly, it takes less computer processing power, and does not require an 'always-on' connection to the FP system; and secondly it acts as a fraud reduction measure.