Solar panels - are they still worth it? New MSE guide

MSE_Jenny

Hi

We've updated our Solar Panels guide. Feed-in payments have been slashed, yet the cost of systems has fallen too. A few people can still get them free in England.

It would be great if you could have a read of the guide and let us know what you think. Do you have any questions you'd like answered or think anything can be improved?

Thanks very much
Jenny

rogerblack

1. East or west facing unshaded roofs can work just fine.
http://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvgis/apps4/pvest.php - for example - a 1kW south-facing array in central fife will produce about 883kWh/year.
A west facing one 659.
If you can get appropriate install quotes - it can still work.

Solar is an individual thing.
What will work well at one price, and in one location may not work well in others.
Is south-facing best - maybe.
If you have unlimited south-facing unshaded roof area - certainly that's the best place for it.
If you don't - panels on other roof aspects can still work out just fine, but require more thought.

2. http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Generating-energy/Getting-money-back/Solar-Energy-Calculator gives in all locations I've found considerably smaller savings than £125

sheffield_lad

There are more variables involved like does your meter have a backstop? If the answer is no you will save a lot more.

Typical saving on the lecci bill I come across are around £120-£150 ish but most folk these days are having the 4kw systems installed.

BTW had a quote recently for 4kw £5k all in inc scaffolding so cheaper than the article suggests.

Sirlaughalot

I`ve been a bit disillusioned by some of the misconceptions and in some cases down right lies given to me by some of the salesman in their quest to get that elusive sale! Having had around 6 surveys to date i have got to the stage where i have decided to self manage my own installation with the help of friends and some brilliant posters on various MSE threads.

To date the best deals i`ve got for a 4KW PV solar system so far are

£5300 +Vat (16 - 250 KW sun2light panels)

The best price for my self managed bespoke installation is £5100 + Vat (12 x 320 KW BenQ panels) as opposed to a retail best price of £6999 + Vat.

To date here are some of the problems i have experienced

1 - Not getting the basic roof measurements correct - Major embarrassment on their part turning up on the day of installation with a system that wont fit.

2 - Not one company to date has made reference to the house requiring a Energy Performance Certificate of d or above to qualify for the higher rate of FIT

3 - Most of the salesman have inspected the electricity meter i have at my home but nobody has mentioned the implications of a old analogue meter running backwards except for one on line company who has yet to make a survey.

4 - All salesman bar none have calculated a 50% energy saving on the energy we use during the day even though the household during the working week is unoccupied.

5 - All salesman bar none have estimated that the system will pay for itself within 4 - 7 years when in reality the figure is closer to 10 - 12 years.

6 - All salesman have quoted a energy inflation rate of between 10-15% in their figures as opposed to the governments DECC figure of 3%.

7 - Three companies have tried to sell me a Poly system!

8 - Only two companies have mentioned the need to fit a special(dopla) valve on the soil pipe in side the loft most will just cap it (Naughty - Naughty).

9 - High pressure sales tactics by two of the companies to get me to sign a disclaimer to waiver my 7 day cooling off period in order to qualify for a discount ( dead against MCS rules of conduct).

10 - No one has mentioned the fitting of snow guards yet all the houses with panels, one exception, have them fitted.

11 - Switching of energy suppliers (solar panel) is frowned upon by the big six energy companies according to some installers and they can be quite intimidating when switching and making FIT payments.

12 Salesman continuing to use the out of date but more impressive looking SAP figures to calculate your expected energy production and FIT calculations against the new MSC model.

Thanks

SL

rogerblack

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

3 - Most of the salesman have inspected the electricity meter i have at my home but nobody has mentioned the implications of a old analogue meter running backwards except for one on line company who has yet to make a survey.

This may be extremely limited - simply as there isa box that is ticked that says 'my meter runs backwards' - on the forms.
This means that in many cases, the electricity company pops round and changes the meter.
Most disc meters are really close to their certified end of life, and are due for replacement any day now, in addition.

Sirlaughalot

rogerblack wrote: »

This may be extremely limited - simply as there isa box that is ticked that says 'my meter runs backwards' - on the forms.
This means that in many cases, the electricity company pops round and changes the meter.
Most disc meters are really close to their certified end of life, and are due for replacement any day now, in addition.

Thanks Roger,

Some PV solar owners have reported the problem and are still waiting for the meters to be replaced some 2 years on. Highly beneficial to most owners but extremely stressful for some others!

SL

Cardew

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

I`ve been a bit disillusioned by some of the misconceptions and in some cases down right lies given to me by some of the salesman in their quest to get that elusive sale! Having had around 6 surveys to date i have got to the stage where i have decided to self manage my own installation with the help of friends and some brilliant posters on various MSE threads.

The Solar 'industry', when only solar thermal(hot water only) was being sold, would have put double glazing salesmen to shame with their outrageous claims.

They were the subject of lots of 'watchdog' type progammes and countless complaints to trading standard offices.

We were assured that with PV solar this would all change and we would have high standards - none of the cowboy tactics.

Some hope!

sheffield_lad

Sirlaughalot wrote: »

I`ve been a bit disillusioned by some of the misconceptions and in some cases down right lies given to me by some of the salesman in their quest to get that elusive sale! Having had around 6 surveys to date i have got to the stage where i have decided to self manage my own installation with the help of friends and some brilliant posters on various MSE threads.

To date the best deals i`ve got for a 4KW PV solar system are

£5300 +Vat (16 - 250 KW sun2light panels)

The best price for my self managed bespoke installation is £5100 + Vat (12 x 320 KW BenQ panels) as opposed to a retail best price of £6999 + Vat.

I live south yorks and the independent guys up here fit for £5k all in most as it gives them a decent wage and pleny of work.

To date here are some of the problems i have experienced

1 - Not getting the basic roof measurements correct - Major embarrassment on their part turning up on the day of installation with a system that wont fit.

2 - Not one company to date has made reference to the house requiring a Energy Performance Certificate of d or above to qualify for the higher rate of FIT

I do some surveys after the install has gone in and its very rare for a property not to score D unless your off gas or live in a period property the salesmen often get a handle on wether or not it will score well.

3 - Most of the salesman have inspected the electricity meter i have at my home but nobody has mentioned the implications of a old analogue meter running backwards except for one on line company who has yet to make a survey.

Not many salesmen quite understand the opportunities or issues with old meters 2019 before they all come out.

4 - All salesman bar none have calculated a 50% energy saving on the energy we use during the day even though the household during the working week is unoccupied.

5 - All salesman bar none have estimated that the system will pay for itself within 4 - 7 years when in reality the figure is closer to 10 - 12 years.

4yrs is very low and not possible 8-10 is though well for £5k ish it is.

6 - All salesman have quoted a energy inflation rate of between 10-15% in their figures as opposed to the governments DECC figure of 3%.

7 - Three companies have tried to sell me a Poly system!

8 - Only two companies have mentioned the need to fit a special(dopla) valve on the soil pipe in side the loft most will just cap it (Naughty - Naughty).

9 - High pressure sales tactics by two of the companies to get me to sign a disclaimer to waiver my 7 day cooling off period in order to qualify for a discount ( dead against MCS rules of conduct).

10 - No one has mentioned the fitting of snow guards yet all the houses with panels, one exception, have them fitted.

They are not fitted around here, if you wanted them I am sure they could pop them on at a cost

11 - Switching of energy suppliers (solar panel) is frowned upon by the big six energy companies according to some installers and they can be quite intimidating when switching and making FIT payments.

SL

12 Salesman continuing to use the out of date but more impressive SAP figures to calculate your expected energy production and FIT calculations against the new MSC model.

Thanks

Sirlaughalot

Despite all the short comings i have found within the PV solar panel industry i still believe they still make a fantastic long term investment opportunity and i find the renewable/green concept quite intriguing.
From my point of view doing your own research is essential in a field that still has a double glazing/used car sales image to address(Arthur Daley and DelBoy would have been at their very best here). Get as many quotes as you can and take as much time as is necessary to get the deal that is right for you and not the company that is installing the system. Many of these companies will direct you to made up PV solar kits available from wholesalers who buy in bulk to get the best deal they can. Sun2Ligt and Perlight seem to be the most popular ones at the moment so i would check on the performance and warranty details of these packages. In particular check that the manufacturers are still in business. Also i have heard that some of these panels have been re branded and are being sold under a new name.
Once i am fully happy with the bespoke PV system i want i will be setting up a MSE forum highlighting the progress of my self managed PV installation that might help others.

Regards

SL

The_Green_Hornet

Cardew wrote: »

The Solar 'industry', when only solar thermal(hot water only) was being sold, would have put double glazing salesmen to shame with their outrageous claims.

They were the subject of lots of 'watchdog' type progammes and countless complaints to trading standard offices.

We were assured that with PV solar this would all change and we would have high standards - none of the cowboy tactics.

Some hope!

No industry has control over the cowboys that will inevitably infest it so it is reliant on the consumer to be aware of what is achievable before buying.

The Which? guide is a good starting point.

http://www.which.co.uk/energy/creating-an-energy-saving-home/guides/how-to-buy-solar-panels/

John_Pierpoint

We do have some long running expert threads on here.
On them you will find posters who have met and fixed a whole host of problems.
(with the possible exception of the shadow from a "lollypop" tree in a neighbouring Sheffield garden;)).

It is a lot of reading and you will go green eyed over some of the inflation proof returns being earned by some early adopters, but if you want to make a 20+ year investment, there is lots of scope for "act in haste, repent at leisure".

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62854102#Comment_62854102
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3872445
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3853851
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/3853851