Short term lets - occupants causing disturbance to other leaseholders

pg1981

Situation overview – share of freehold house converted into 6 flats, each leaseholder owns 1 share in management company which owns the freehold. Myself plus one other are owner-occupiers act as directors of the management company. Other 4 flats are sub-let to rental tenants. Location is Westminster, central London

Owner A sub-lets his flat under AST. It has been recently discovered that owner B has been using his flat exclusively as a short-term let (advertising via airbnb etc). A’s tenant recently moved in and has made several complaints about excessive noise from B’s flat directly above, often late at night or early in the morning (partying, music etc). The problem essentially stems from the fact that these short-term tenants are only there for holiday and partying, therefore have complete disregard for other occupants of the building

Owner A is faced with the prospect of losing his tenant if the situation doesn’t improve. The issue has already been raised with owner B but he has been very uncooperative so far (on this and a number of other building related issues). What practical steps can we take to address the situation. What are the responsibilities of the management company??

If there was a permanent tenant in flat B it would probably be easier to address because you would tell them once to keep quiet, but with new tenants every few days makes this impossible in practice

Relevant facts that may be useful:

• Explicit covenants in the leases for each flat that are particularly relevant:
• Sub-letting only allowed for period of at least 90 days under AST or similar agreement
• No noise / disturbance to be heard outside the flat between 11pm – 7am
• Don’t do anything that would vitiate insurance

Short-letting for less than 90 days is illegal in Westminster (in addition to other London boroughs) and the council actively enforce this

Potential actions:

• Management company to write to owner B and inform them they are in breach of the lease and must take necessary steps to rectify. Could just say he needs to improve sound proofing, put up signs etc, could say no short-term letting allowed at all – what if he continues to ignore??
• Inform council and let them deal with it – seems like a last resort, do we have an obligation to inform them now we know that flat is being short-let??

My own personal view and that of other owners is that even if the noise issue went away we are not comfortable having random strangers with access to the building all the time, so preference is to put a complete stop to short-term letting.

dell12

As a director of a similar sized block I'd write a letter (if friendly attempts prove unfruitful) stating that he's breaking the terms of the lease. Ideally quote the clause which he's breaking.

Ultimately it's the lease which gives you power, not really anything else like the council. I'm sure it won't come to it but ultimately you (as in the freeholder) can withdraw the lease and he loses his flat. It's obviously not something that is taken lightly or is easy to do but a threatening letter to the owner (or mortgage company if there's a mortgage on the property) usually does the trick.

Guest101

surely this is a problem for the owner of flat a, nothing to do with u or anyone else?

Annisele

If you haven't already, you could try getting in touch with the Leasehold Advisory Service, though the only bit I can find that's relevant to your situation is pretty short.

I think I'd try a letter first, along the lines dell12 suggests. I don't think you need to suggest what steps he should take to rectify - it's pretty obvious that the way to rectify 'letting for less than 90 days' is to stop doing that. If you suggest that soundproofing the flat might fix the problem, then I think you've implied that you're actually quite happy for him to breach the lease. That could cause you problems if you ultimately want to enforce the terms.

Guest101

PasturesNew wrote: »

I lived next door to a holiday let and called the managing agent one night because of noise (two girls had brought back two lads they'd met the night before after they'd been refused entry to a club for being underage/not having ID) ... and they were drinking/partying next door and I could hear it kicking off, with one girl barracading herself in the flat and a lad trying to break the door down.

Agent turned up within 15 minutes, listened from outside the door for 10 minutes in the street, then hammered on the door. Gained instant entry and chucked out the visitors, then got the girls to clear up the house for the next hour and said he'd be back at 9am for an inspection and if it wasn't all ship shape he'd boot them straight out. They can do that with holiday lets.

1: why didnt u call the police?
2: uhm no they can't. the let has been paid for, and the managing agent is not an authority. lucky he didnt boot them out!
3: he gained illegal entry, lucky they didnt call the police

Guest101

PasturesNew wrote: »

1. There weren't enough police in the town to have come, there wasn't any specific "crime" occurring. I knew the house owner and the lettings agent and had his number "in case of trouble".
2. Booking forms include conditions of booking. Most holiday bookings have a clause "The Property Owner reserves the right to terminate immediately any occupation"
3. He knocked on the door, they invited him in.....

1: Well that is an issues that needs to be taken up with the local constabulary, as far as you were aware, someone was breaking into the flat, in order to attack someone else. An underage girl no less....
2:Just because it says that, does not mean that they can legally do that. I can put up a sign saying anyone looking at my house is liable to a fine of £50, doesnt mean its true. The simple fact is they have paid for a occupation, and if the Property Owner ( and your words, not the management company/agent) wants to terminate, he'll likely be issuing a refund too.
3: And then proceeded to illegally remove people from the property and force to underage occupants to tidy the house/flat. Who does he think he is? Would've gotten a slap from anyone with a back bone, but i guess he saw the same thing to underage girls....

Guest101

PasturesNew wrote: »

The girls were underage in that they were 17/18/19, too young to get into clubs without ID providing they were 21/25.

They'd set off that night with a bottle each in their hand - and drinking directly from the bottle as they walked down the road. Gobby troublemakers the lot of them.

It's standard for people to be booted out of holiday accommodation if they break the rules. Most Saturday/Sunday mornings at 3am you can see crowds of young adults sitting wth their suitcases on the kerb because one of their party broke furniture/fittings and set off fire extinguishers when drunk.

1: 17 is underage, & most club ID under 25's to prove they are over 18 (but perhaps not in this case)

2: And? They're on holiday and enjoying themselves - dear god no!!

3: And because they dont know the law, they agreed to it. Doesnt make it legal...

lvm

In England, those in holiday rental accommodation are excluded occupiers. So any T&Cs saying you can get evicted under certain circumstances is correct (and not illegal!). Technically, reasonable notice should be given - in the case of holiday rental, an hour or two to pack belongings is reasonable.

I manage holiday accommodation in Scotland where just 2 weekends ago we terminated a weekend stag party after the first night. They kicked through our office door (separate from accommodation), urinated in the stairwell and smoked in the apartments. But I guess this is ok...they're on holiday after all!!

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/eviction_of_private_tenants/eviction_of_excluded_occupiers

pg1981

I think this thread has gone a bit off topic. Whatever rules relate to holiday lets are probably irrelevant - as someone has said the key point is the lease forbids lettings less than 90 days, and accepting anything less than getting them to cease short letting is an indirect admission that you are happy to let them do it (whether they put sound insulation in or take any other measures).

I have written a short letter that has the support of the other owners that basically says "you're not allowed to rent your flat for less than 90 days, if you dont stop management co will contact council and / or pursue forfeiture"

If this has not effect then cheapest and easiest action would be to inform council and let them deal with it I think

Sound sensible?

PasturesNew

pg1981 wrote: »

I think this thread has gone a bit off topic. Whatever rules relate to holiday lets are probably irrelevant

Lets of less than 90 days are holiday lets though ... holiday lets are short lets, people don't have to prove they're on a "holiday" and show a bucket and spade.

advertising via airbnb etc)

Which is where people advertise holiday lets.

Guest101

lvm wrote: »

In England, those in holiday rental accommodation are excluded occupiers. So any T&Cs saying you can get evicted under certain circumstances is correct (and not illegal!). Technically, reasonable notice should be given - in the case of holiday rental, an hour or two to pack belongings is reasonable.

I manage holiday accommodation in Scotland where just 2 weekends ago we terminated a weekend stag party after the first night. They kicked through our office door (separate from accommodation), urinated in the stairwell and smoked in the apartments. But I guess this is ok...they're on holiday after all!!

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/eviction_of_private_tenants/eviction_of_excluded_occupiers

Did i say that, or did i actually say they'll be refunded the people they kick out.

no it's not ok, but you're running a business, so dont take it personally.