A Warning: Job Centre goalposts moving.

Flyonthewall

Nightranger wrote: »

I am not sure I understand your argument here, my sanction was issued under the JS agreement I had at the time (only revised last week). Even the Work Programme provider agrees that I can demonstrate compliance so why is this NOT moving the goalposts? I fully appreciate the stricter JS agreement I am now under and I can work with this in mind but I was doing far more than my original JS agreement stipulated so for an SO to suddenly raise a query because she has been instructed to do so with everyone is surely moving the goalposts. I have appealed the decision but we are now stuck in a circular argument so I have asked my MP to look into the matter because I am not sure how I can reverse the decision even by demonstrating compliance to the new agreement.

It's more of a breakdown of communication and lack of information. Like you say, there's a lot of people who haven't been told about the UJM and they are getting stricter. The SO doesn't really know much about the UJM but has been told to raise a query (based on new stricter rules) and you haven't been told everything about the UJM and that things are much stricter, you were going by the original agreement.

What they did wasn't fair and I hope you get it sorted and no one else ends up with an unfair sanction.

Celyn

The whole thing sounds straight out of Kafka! :eek: Right now I don't have to sign on, but I clicked on this thread just because I might as well get the hang of how it works now. And it sounds damn confusing.

Fingers crossed for all on this thread.

Nightranger

AP007 wrote: »

Nightranger I think you are TOTALLY missing the point!!

I know how to use the site perfectly well thanks

Tell me where you can add a cover letter?

How many interviews have you got from jobs that you have applied to that are actually ON the UJM site?

You can add a cover letter under the CV options...although there is no way of attaching it to a job because it is only a single-file attach option when you apply.I am not sure what this has to do with my original post BTW.

How many interviews? None that I can remember but isn't this question aimed at whether we are playing the game or not? The point I am trying to make is that it is possible to find jobs to go for irrespective of whether you want that job or whether you are likely to get it. This is considered to be a job-seeking activity, as is looking beyond UJM given my career background. I already realised it was necessary to input any jobs found outside UJM. I have even been told by a certain SO that I am applying for too many science jobs (honestly!), which I find strange given I have a degree in a Biology discipline. During my altered agreement meeting, my contact took Science Technican off my targets because I had not worked in that area for more than ten years but added Order Picker even though I have only done casual work in that area and around 15-20 years ago simply because I pointed out that I was applying for jobs beyond my agreement. As I said, this is not just about UJM but about JC staff perceptions. OK, if you want to argue that UJM and JC meetings are not inextricably linked then I won't disagree but it is very much horses for courses round here and almost certainly differs even if you are in the next town along from me...at least it will do until the DWP directive hits your office.

AP007

Nightranger wrote: »

You can add a cover letter under the CV options...although there is no way of attaching it to a job because it is only a single-file attach option when you apply.I am not sure what this has to do with my original post BTW.

How many interviews? None that I can remember but isn't this question aimed at whether we are playing the game or not? .

Because you said that if we were cute to the site its a great site or words to that effect

You would have to delete the CV if you can I have no idea and then attach a new file EVEY time you apply to a job as there is no space for a cover letter. What moron actually set up this site and thought it was a great idea when we all know you have to send a cover letter for all jobs and if you ask the JC they will say probably that they have no idea

Why have you not had interviews from the UJM site if its so great?

You have no need to tell me about it as I am not on it and do not need to have an account at all and I am playing the 'game' very well. There are no goalposts for me that have been moved at all.

Flyonthewall

Nightranger wrote: »

You can add a cover letter under the CV options...although there is no way of attaching it to a job because it is only a single-file attach option when you apply.I am not sure what this has to do with my original post BTW.

How many interviews? None that I can remember but isn't this question aimed at whether we are playing the game or not? The point I am trying to make is that it is possible to find jobs to go for irrespective of whether you want that job or whether you are likely to get it. This is considered to be a job-seeking activity, as is looking beyond UJM given my career background. I already realised it was necessary to input any jobs found outside UJM. I have even been told by a certain SO that I am applying for too many science jobs (honestly!), which I find strange given I have a degree in a Biology discipline. During my altered agreement meeting, my contact took Science Technican off my targets because I had not worked in that area for more than ten years but added Order Picker even though I have only done casual work in that area and around 15-20 years ago simply because I pointed out that I was applying for jobs beyond my agreement. As I said, this is not just about UJM but about JC staff perceptions. OK, if you want to argue that UJM and JC meetings are not inextricably linked then I won't disagree but it is very much horses for courses round here and almost certainly differs even if you are in the next town along from me...at least it will do until the DWP directive hits your office.

You know how you said about why have pointless features...

You did say at the start the UJM was a good resource.

The point that stands out to me is that the JC don't know what they're talking about or what people should be applying for. If they're told to be stricter and raise an issue they will, regardless of any logic behind it.

Nightranger

Celyn wrote: »

The whole thing sounds straight out of Kafka! :eek: Right now I don't have to sign on, but I clicked on this thread just because I might as well get the hang of how it works now. And it sounds damn confusing.

Fingers crossed for all on this thread.

I suppose it is like everything, we only speak up when the situation turns bad. I have been out of work for five and a half years not including a couple of temp' and P/T jobs but a lot of that time I received some tremendous help from the WP and general empathy from the JC. I am not going to bore everyone with why I came to be unemployed but needless to say it was a poor decision on my part just two months before the economy fell over. I quite rightly received a sanction for voluntarily leaving a job at the time but it was a different world back then and I honestly thought I would be out of work for no more than a couple of months. This involved a possible relocation anyway so it was no great hardship and I was working in an area of work where you have to go out to come back in (if you know what I mean). I was not so blase or arrogant as to think it would be easy because of who I was so I made sure I went into volunteering (something I did for three years continuously) to widen my options. You see, despite my apparent recent record, I really do want to work. I am aware of all the obstacles and why this is not as straightforward as it should be, it even goes against the grain for me to be complaining about the JC but I have overheard conversations in my local JC and there are people worst placed than me (bad as my situation is). I am sure as a new claimant, you are unlikely to see most of these problems (there may be others according to other threads on here but don't be deterred) we have been talking about on this thread and you may find people in the JC to be perfectly polite and helpful where you are.

Flyonthewall

AP007 wrote: »

You would have to delete the CV if you can I have no idea and then attach a new file EVEY time you apply to a job as there is no space for a cover letter. What moron actually set up this site and thought it was a great idea when we all know you have to send a cover letter for all jobs and if you ask the JC they will say probably that they have no idea.

If you apply for a job, delete the CV then add a new one which would the previous company see? Do they get sent the one that is there when you apply or the current one uploaded?

If it's always the current one then it can never be a custom CV for each job.

You could put a cover letter and CV in the same file and hope that it covers the points for most jobs but obviously it's not the same.

AP007

Flyonthewall wrote: »

If you apply for a job, delete the CV then add a new one which would the previous company see? Do they get sent the one that is there when you apply or the current one uploaded?

If it's always the current one then it can never be a custom CV for each job.

You could put a cover letter and CV in the same file and hope that it covers the points for most jobs but obviously it's not the same.

I have no idea as I don't apply on the UJM

Maybe Nightranger can tell us

I was under the impression the CV became part of your profile so I was guessing the employer logs in to see the CV but if you have over ridden it they see a cover letter for a different job, maybe?

Lets ask the JC LOL

Nightranger

Flyonthewall wrote: »

You know how you said about why have pointless features...

You did say at the start the UJM was a good resource.

The point that stands out to me is that the JC don't know what they're talking about or what people should be applying for. If they're told to be stricter and raise an issue they will, regardless of any logic behind it.

I didn't say UJM was perfect though, again I think it is about knowing how the functionality works but it is easy enough to misunderstand some parts of it. I think we are all dancing around the uncomfortable truth that if JC staff are making subjective judgements about UJM activity then they are almost certainly encouraging people to lie.As far as I can see, using UJM extensively is a good resource (OK, now I will add the caveat ) if you want a permanent record of your activity and I am sure I can make this work for me(eventually) in overturning my sanction. Fantastic if you and AP007 worked it all out immediately but I think the gist of this thread proves the site is far from intuitive - as also confirmed by what I have overheard at times - and I certainly admit that I did not work some bits of it out until I asked for clarification.

AP007

Nightranger wrote: »

I didn't say UJM was perfect though, again I think it is about knowing how the functionality works but it is easy enough to misunderstand some parts of it. I think we are all dancing around the uncomfortable truth that if JC staff are making subjective judgements about UJM activity then they are almost certainly encouraging people to lie.As far as I can see, using UJM extensively is a good resource (OK, now I will add the caveat ) if you want a permanent record of your activity and I am sure I can make this work for me(eventually) in overturning my sanction. Fantastic if you and AP007 worked it all out immediately but I think the gist of this thread proves the site is far from intuitive - as also confirmed by what I have overheard at times - and I certainly admit that I did not work some bits of it out until I asked for clarification.

The UJM site is the worst job site in the UK!!! Any fool would know that by doing one job search and seeing what the profile asks your for and the fact can not add a letter to each job

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