parking fine robin hood airport

103Rich

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Strange post, and one I would ignore, personally. Even if a PPC has changed the signs I would ALWAYS include a POPLA appeal point about the signage being unclear and not compliant with the BPA CoP. Even 'new, improved signage' is normally unclear or non-compliant. Why would anyone NOT raise a point at POPLA, the more the merrier to set up a load of banana skins for the PPC to slip on!

POPLA strong appeal examples, including 'how to win POPLA appeal':

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62180281#Comment_62180281

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62523345#Comment_62523345

Let us know when you have drafted a POPLA appeal, and show it here, unhappychappie. As this is Airport land you can also cite that there is in your opinion, no keeper liability under the POF Act 2012 anyway because Airport land is likely to be covered by byelaws and is NOT 'relevant land' as defined in the POF Act 2012. You insist that the PPC must prove otherwise to POPLA (proving an absence of byelaws at this site, as confirmed by the Airport Authority themselves) if they are to rebut that point.

I cannot reply to private messages from newbies at the moment, sorry, too much personal stuff going on this month.

To the OP I stand by my earlier post. I live 200yds from the entrance to the airport site. Whichever way you entered the site you drove past a huge sign proclaiming this is a restricted zone and there is no stopping at any time. On alternate lamp posts there are clear, all be it smaller, signs advising you of the same. Wherever you parked you were never more than 50 yards away from a sign advising you not to stop. If you submit to POPLA that the signage is insufficient and unclear and VCS produce pictures and a map they'll make you look foolish. In my opinion you're much better concentrating on points in a POPLA appeal that you can win. I'm not sure the bye laws angle will be helpful either. If you write to the airport they'll tell you they are owned by a different company to the company that owns the land around the airport. Having had a PCN from VCS on this site in the past cancelled I have a little bit of local knowledge. For clarity mine was before the signs were changed.

As I said before good luck with it all. As you must be reasonably local yourself pop back and have a look at the signage then make a decision if you feel it's worth an appeal point.

Coupon-mad

103Rich wrote: »

Whichever way you entered the site you drove past a huge sign proclaiming this is a restricted zone and there is no stopping at any time.

...it's interesting to read this from someone so local they can check the signs, but I would say that huge but brief sign is NOT compliant with the BPA CoP appendix about entrance signage (and in any case this isn't relevant land as I have already said, so the rk has zero liability there and must not let slip who the driver was).

And as has been said before on Airport so-called 'no-stopping zone' threads, of which there are loads, mostly about Luton but still similar, any smaller signs on lamp-posts can't be read & understood...unless you stop! I would ALWAYS include a point about unclear signage in any POPLA appeal even when the person is the rk and has never even seen the signage. Makes the PPC have to provide maps and copies of signs, potentially causing them to fail to show the signs are OK even if they might be!

VCS could never make anyone look foolish - they are too good at doing that to themselves!

103Rich

Coupon-mad wrote: »

...it's interesting to read this from someone so local they can check the signs, but I would say that huge but brief sign is NOT compliant with the BPA CoP appendix about entrance signage (and in any case this isn't relevant land as I have already said, so the rk has zero liability there and must not let slip who the driver was).

And as has been said before on Airport so-called 'no-stopping zone' threads, of which there are loads, mostly about Luton but still similar, any smaller signs on lamp-posts can't be read & understood...unless you stop! I would ALWAYS include a point about unclear signage in any POPLA appeal even when the person is the rk and has never even seen the signage. Makes the PPC have to provide maps and copies of signs, potentially causing them to fail to show the signs are OK even if they might be!

VCS could never make anyone look foolish - they are too good at doing that to themselves!

I'll post pictures when I get chance which should help clarify.

If the land around the airport isn't owned by the airport please explain why it's not relevant land for PoFA.

I'm no supporter of VCS or any other PPC but this is just my 2p's worth as a result of knowing the location.

103Rich

Bit of research done and it seems Peel own the lot. Airport and all approach roads. They did sell the airport in 2011 but it's now back in their ownership apparently so the bye-laws as per here apply

https://www.robinhoodairport.com/_assets/downloads/byelaws.pdf So no keeper liability then, which is good to know.

Pictures of the signs

http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w671/103Rich/photo1_zps9f1bfaa9.jpg
http://i1335.photobucket.com/albums/w671/103Rich/photo_zpsf77b1625.jpg

Hope I've done that right this being my first go!

I'd still say they are clear and are readable whilst moving, as I was when I took them because as we know stopping is not allowed :rotfl:

I'd agree with what's said here:
https://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/popla/

Appeal on many points but make sure they are strong and valid.
Anyone not following The Parking Prankster on Twitter should, he's very entertaining

Just as a final thought any ideas what VCS do with eastern european registered cars stopped on the site? DVLA any use there?

Best wishes

Iceweasel

103Rich wrote: »

Just as a final thought any ideas what VCS do with eastern european registered cars stopped on the site? DVLA any use there?

They can do exactly the same as they can do with a car whose Registered Keeper has an address in Scotland - Nothing! LOL

Coupon-mad

Specific strong appeal wording for Airport/Railway land (change the PPC to VCS of course, and ONLY include the points which are relevant to YOUR Notice to Keeper!). Was your fake PCN letter received within 14 days?? That's the important deadline; you were asking the wrong 14 day question. Was it headed up 'Notice to Keeper'?

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62859837#Comment_62859837

With a very strong appeal I expect the scammers to throw in the towel. But failing that, you will get a POPLA 10 digit code and a rejection. Read around the parking forum for information and links on threads (ANY THREADS) about POPLA appeal wording.

Or VCS will try it on and say you have to say who was driving; DO NOT tell them and complain to the BPA and DVLA if they try that as a response. You are allowed a POPLA code without saying who was driving (which on Airport land, you MUST NOT of course, since due to bylaws taking precedence, that's likely to be the only person they can aim this at as registered keeper liability under POFA doesn't apply, as already advised).

unhappychappie

hi folks

Just an update I have not received any thing back from vcs and its now 39 days since I sent the rejection letter as posted on this thread. that's over the 35 days there allowed to send me the popla code. do I need to email them again stating there out of time or do I just presume its no longer a problem

unhappychappie

hi folks,

i have received a letter back from vcs 41 days after i sent them my soft appeal and there is no popla code they have how ever reduced the payment to £60 from the original £100 and there saying they are not clear who the driver is. giving me 3 options, 1 pay £60 2 name driver 3 appeal to popla.
do i have to start a new thread for advice or can people still see this thread and give me advice i will post again tomorrow when i have more time with details of the letter they have sent.
thanks in advance

zzzLazyDaisy

No you don't need to start a new thread.

Also are you absolutely certain there is no POPLA code? That doesn't make sense as they list one of your options as appealing to POPLA which you cannot do without the code.

It might not clearly identify the number as being a POPLA code - so carefully examine the letter for a 10 digit number (it might be described as a reference number, or it may just be a number in the header or footer in small print). Some of these PPCs go to extraordinary measures to make it difficult for you.

Daisy

unhappychappie

zzzLazyDaisy wrote: »

No you don't need to start a new thread.

Also are you absolutely certain there is no POPLA code? That doesn't make sense as they list one of your options as appealing to POPLA which you cannot do without the code.

It might not clearly identify the number as being a POPLA code - so carefully examine the letter for a 10 digit number (it might be described as a reference number, or it may just be a number in the header or footer in small print). Some of these PPCs go to extraordinary measures to make it difficult for you.

Daisy

This is the letter they sent and there is no popla code.

We are in receipt of your recent correspondence received on the 30th July 2013 in connection with the above referenced parking charge notice (PCN)

Please note that liability for this PCN lies with the driver of the vehicle at the time the Parking contravention was observed. it is, however, not made clear within your correspondence that you were the driver of the vehicle on the day in question and therefore we are at present unable to process your representations for this reason.

The following options are available:

1. confirm to us in writing, that you were the driver of the vehicle on the day in question. This MUST contain the drivers FULL NAME (Forename and surname) and a valid FULL UK ADDRESS FOR SERVICE.

2. If you are unable to provide us with the aforementioned, but wish to exercise your right to appeal to the Parking On Private Land Appeals (POPLA) service, please notify us within 14 days and we will provide you a verification code alongside relevant forms.

3. Pay the PCN. Payments can be made online at https://www.vehiclecontrol.co.uk or by following the links for "PCN Payment", or over the phoneby using credit or debit card. Alternatively you can pay by cheque or postal order through the post.

As a gesture of good-will, we have placed the case file on hold for an additional 14 days to enable the above mentioned actions to be administered. If we receive either no payment or further communication by 30 September 2013, the right to appeal may be lost and the charge may revert to the original (non-discounted) rate.
At present the required payment of £60 is outstanding and is to be received within our office by 30 september 2013. if the payment is not received by this date the amount payable will increase to £100.00 payable. Failure to comply may result in the issue of court proceedings whereby further costs will be incurred.


I typed that out word for word now im not so intelligent as most but does this letter actually fight my case for me as "Please note that liability for this PCN lies with the driver of the vehicle at the time the Parking contravention was observed" i wasn't the driver therefore im not liable and they illegally got my details from DVLA. All help and advice gratefully received.