Unadopted road

moneyistooshorttomention

Oh yes...the grass verges....

From comments on here so far I have:

- asked my solicitor whether I have actual (part) ownership of the road or just have a Right of Way over it (particularly because I have been told that another nearby house owns the grass verges on each side of the road). Well at least I got told that this Other House has responsibility for maintaining the grass verges and its not down to residents in the road.

- told my solicitor that I require to pay out Indemnity Insurance as a one-off payment prior to Exchange of Contracts against someone having an accident in our road and deciding to sue us for it (and I do wonder whether I was going to be told that by my "legals" in time, even though it is a solicitor firm I am using, rather than a firm of conveyancers). I am just so grateful to the posters on here who mentioned the possibility of such an insurance claim, as that thought hadn't crossed my mind and I could have landed up being Up the Swanee about it at some point in the future if it hadn't been for them:T

- it looks as if public utilities (gas/electric/phone/broadband) will cover the responsibility/cost of doing "maintenance" work on their services in the road and would only seek to charge for "improvement" work (which, of course, we could all refuse to have done if there was likely to be a charge for that).

There aren't (well...shouldn't be) any parking problems because of the layout of the area. It's quite clear exactly who can (and cant) park where (I DO know just how jealously car-owners "guard" their spaces....:rotfl:). There are designated carparking spaces and its quite clear whose is whose.

Laughed at your comment re muckspreading;). The road isn't THAT rural, so there won't be any of that thankfully...:rotfl:

DAVE - how did you get the relevant LR map of whats yours? (errm..what does LR stand for please?). Its very clear, from what I can see, as to where boundaries lie and I could mark out to the exact inch as to what land would be mine and what would be a neighbours (though some of the boundaries are invisible). I've been told by the vendor that I own both side walls. Vendor didn't mention back wall of back garden and I presume that this is owned by the houses behind in that case. He has told me that the physical "boundary stuff" each side is his and therefore I am expecting that I can swop fences/walls as I require to on the sides and cant swop the back wall. I intend to continue one of the visible side boundaries to extend it down part of the invisible part of that side boundary.

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moneyistooshorttomention

Just to say a big

THANK YOU

to everyone who has contributed to this thread so far.

I had googled for previous MSE threads on this topic, but hadn't managed to get much info. at all from them. This one is covering all sorts of extra useful info. and is proving a very good resource on this.:T

Davesnave

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

DAVE - how did you get the relevant LR map of whats yours? (errm..what does LR stand for please?).-

The Land Registry. Anyone can buy and download anyone's title plans for £3 each.

http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/public/online-services

I already had mine (with written amendments made prior to exchange, because it was wrong.) I downloaded other plans, including the one covering the neighbouring development's communal areas.

Generally speaking, one can't use the LR plans to mark out exact boundary lines on the ground. They only indicate where they lie. If you extend a fence/hedge etc along an invisible boundary line, then it is good practice to agree with your neighbour where that is before commencing work.

moneyistooshorttomention

An MSE poster has been very helpful to me in PM's on this topic and they and I were both wondering whether I should mention this point in this thread, so here goes...

This being to mention that I have gone and got a quote for the yearly insurance premium level I would be charged if I were to insure myself against A.N. Careless Other walking or driving up this road and injuring themselves and deciding to claim against the home-owners in the road (assuming its an "unadopted road", rather than a "private road" owned by Someone Else and therefore their responsibility).

The yearly figure for "extra" insurance I got quoted (mind...it was only from one firm) was an extra £248 pa:eek:.

In the event it would appear that, provided indemnity insurance against possible Careless Others having accidents in the road/putting in claim about it is made prior to buying the property (ie that would be having this in place as from Exchange of Contracts stage in the housebuying process) that it is a one-off payment and I think it will probably be in the region of around £150 or so and that will cover the rest of my term of ownership of the property concerned (being about £6 pa according to my estimated remaining lifespan of 25-30 years). £6 a year or so isn't a dealbreaker to me, but £248 pa would make me think twice.

So, I have sent my solicitor emails telling her that I will be taking out indemnity insurance through her and making this one-off payment and told her to arrange for this to be done and tell me the exact cost. I have even googled and found the two firms solicitors use for indemnity insurance claims against possible future legal risks a property has, so could tell her that as well if need be (well I did wonder at one point in my life about possible retraining to do legal work...:rotfl:...wonders if I get a discount from her for finding this out....;)).

So...there you go...for the sake of £6 odd per year I'm not going to worry myself about whether someone else might be careless and then try and "lay it on me" to compensate them for their carelessness.

Furts

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

I'm not techno-minded. Can I assume that "fibre optic" means superfast broadband, as opposed to current ordinary broadband?

If that's the case, then I assume residents can say "No thanks all the same. I'll stick with ordinary broadband" and avoid having the superfast variety if it would cost them to do so.

So, if electric cables are underground...does that mean they won't degrade over time (well at least not over the rest of my expected lifetime anyway)?

If the electric cables are good quality they will have a long life. However, where I live there is an enormous problem with sub standard cables ... that the electric authority has kept from the public knowledge for years.
The cost of rectifying this is mind boggling.

A concern would be if sub standard backfill has been put around the cable. This is a problem where I live and has contributed to the cable failures. Hence numerous visits over the last twenty years patching cables all over the place.

Furts

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

Errrm....what's the difference please?

I say "private" - but I assume the correct word is "unadopted"....as in "private" presumably means strangers aren't allowed in the road without reason, whereas "unadopted" just means "It's down to the householders in the road to maintain the road".

There isn't a sign up saying "private" at the entrance to the road.

In general builders put forward roads for adoption, They sign a legally binding agreement and put up a bond should they default, go bust or do a runner. Then, provided they produce work to an approved standard, checked by the local authority and follow all procedures... in course the road will be adopted.

There are many roads which appear private that are supposed to have been adopted, but to date have not been. This can be because the builder, or the council has forgotten about them.

There are others which will be adopted only after the drains have been re-laid and the road re-built.

There are others where the drains are fine but the road needs re- building.

With any private or unadopted road it is always prudent to establish the exact situation. As a rule, any road that has been refused adoption is a potential minefield.

moneyistooshorttomention

Thank you Furts. I know you make some very good contributions to this Board and appreciate your input on this and have certainly been very helpful to me before:T

I get what you are saying and have gathered that its possible to get the relevant Local Authority to adopt a road subsequently, but that they will insist the road is up to a certain standard before they do so.

I would say there is a very good chance that the road concerned is already up to said very good standard and the thought is crossing my mind as to whether to check out my fellow home-owners in the road as to their thoughts on trying to get the relevant Local Authority to adopt the road at some point.

On a different topic, a Real World friend has made the point to me that even if the road is owned by someone else and my thoughts would be just to ensure that I have unfettered Right of Way in Davenave's phrase of "at all times for all purposes" that I will have to ensure I have some sort of insurance cover in place (ie that indemnity insurance prior to buying the house) in case A.N. Careless Other having an accident in the road and putting in a claim decided to have a go at home-owners in the road anyway (ie because we are responsible for maintaining the road surface).

I am presuming that a (collective) responsibility to maintain the road surface may or may not mean we actually "own" the road as such, but I did see my friends' point about "If its the road surface that gets Careless Other then its the road surface maintainers they might go for with a claim".

Hmmm...nervous....but I see no reason not to buy a house in a private (or unadopted) road for someone who has their wits about them and regard it as perfectly feasible and just as resale-worthy to A.N. Other if the owner subsequently decided to resell.

Its just down to having a solicitor with their wits about them (which is something the vast majority of us should have anyway) or having your own wits about you just in case you've picked a dud solicitor. Either way, you'll be fine, even if Bad Luck and Careless Others crop up along the way after buying the place. The poster who has been so helpful to me in PM's ended up with a dud solicitor, but I'm sure that most of them will be perfectly competent and will "do all the necessary" as soon as their client tells them "That there house I'm buying is in some sort of unadopted or private road...do whatever checking out you need to to make sure I'm sorted on that". I'm just someone who is (in the words of both my EA and solicitor) "the most meticulous vendor we have ever had" and someone who worries a bit...but I'm sure 99% of solicitors will have the situation well under control anyway in such circumstances.

Strapped

moneyistooshorttomention wrote: »

Errrm....what's the difference please?

I say "private" - but I assume the correct word is "unadopted"....as in "private" presumably means strangers aren't allowed in the road without reason, whereas "unadopted" just means "It's down to the householders in the road to maintain the road".

There isn't a sign up saying "private" at the entrance to the road.

The difference is in who can use it. An unadopted road just means that the council don't pay to maintain it. Anyone can still drive over it or park on it, kids play on it, etc.

moneyistooshorttomention

Strapped wrote: »

The difference is in who can use it. An unadopted road just means that the council don't pay to maintain it. Anyone can still drive over it or park on it, kids play on it, etc.

Thank you.

I presume the difference is that "private road" means someone else owns it and that someone else might be awkward about access in theory and its as well to ensure that the Right of Way is clearly specified somewhere or other in writing (that "at all times and for all purposes" phrase).

My thoughts on the Right of Way front though would boil down to "If farmers have to accept all these walkers walking across their land exercising their right to walk along a Right of Way that is situate there" and that's for leisure purposes, then I cant see that someone who needs a Right of Way for necessity purposes (ie not just "I fancy a walk in my leisuretime, so I will go thisa way rather than thata way") could possibly get treated any worse than that and any A.N. Other that legally owned the land would not be able to get awkward about home-owner and their vehicles and friends vehicles exercising their Right of Way until kingdom come without let or impediment.

Oh boy...how can you tell that I'm "You name it and I will worry about it"? by temperament:rotfl::rotfl:

Furts

Strapped wrote: »

. An unadopted road just means that the council don't pay to maintain it.

This is true but an important point arises. The councils have no money - this is provided by the tax payers. The tax payers do not oversee the construction to ensure it is satisfactory. This is delegated to the council.

The council owes a duty of care to its tax payers. Hence it should not adopt any road that is likely to become a liability to the taxpayers. This liability would be in the form of a request for additional taxes to fund remedial work to the road.

Consequently, the system is set up to ensure a road remains unadopted until all potential financial risks and liabilities have been removed.

Or to put another way, the risks remain with the builder or developer. The builder, or developer, may try and pass these risks onto the house purchasers...