MSE News: Energy firms should be clearer about their profits, MPs say

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  • sheffield_ladsheffield_lad Forumite
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    rogerblack wrote: »
    It would be comparatively inexpensive to replace all heating with electric.
    Indeed, if prices of electricity dropped significantly, this is what people would do without any subsidy - given a strong signal that prices would remain low in comparison to gas.

    Indeed - drop it far enough, and all of the fixed thermal industrial loads for coal, oil, and gas heating go over to electrical too, leaving the only uses of fossil fuel as transport.

    This is what councils back in the 60's and 70's thought as the queen smashed Champaign against nuclear power plants places like Hull & Leeds decided that all electric properties were the future! lol

    Alas with electricity between 3x x4 the price of gas that decision can now be called a big mistake.

    Gas is a clean fuel given it is a fossil fuel far cleaner than coal and we have 150yrs worth (estimated at current reserves). From 2016 no property built within the UK will have gas as we move to code 5 sustainable zero carbon builds, it will be interesting to see how the owners of these properties get on with future bills as currently ASHP & GSHP can leave you with a nasty bill if the back up is immersion.
  • edited 30 July 2013 at 11:52AM
    Richie-from-the-BoroRichie-from-the-Boro Forumite
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    edited 30 July 2013 at 11:52AM
    The Danes are the world leaders per head of population in installed wind power. They also have, by far the most expensive electricity in Europe. Germany has the largest European installation of wind power, it's the number two most costly country for electricity prices. Spain is close on Germany's heels for installed wind capacity, with Italy and Spain a poor third on total installed wind capacity.

    The facts are that French Nuclear power [80% of French Electricity generation is nuclear] provides by far, the cheapest electricity in Europe. France has less than one tenth of the installed number of turbines per head of population compared to Denmark the world wind leader, and only a quarter of the turbines of Germany and Spain.

    The French in fact have a surplus supply and rock solid 'energy security', if I was asked how France could improve price supply to its nation I'd recommend the immediate cessation of wind installs and in fact the immediate deconstruction of its uselessly expensive wind farms. They would as a Geordie would say 'be on a winner ' because they don't need it its a cost not a benefit to the nation.

    Clearly then those with most windy mills pay the highest price in general, but the cost & capacity level is not linear, when wind [now the more expensive wet wind] gets to an high installed capacity % the price subsidy by consumers takes off exponentially.

    If the more turbines per head of population, the higher your electricity bills are is true .... and it is .... then isn't it the case that wind power itself and of itself is the main driver of inflated electricity price in this and other countries ?
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • The Danes are the world leaders per head of population in installed wind power.

    Probably helps being the flattest country in Europe after the Netherlands!
  • PincherPincher
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    Radical new design.

    Put turbines in the form of kites in the sky.
    Think the worms of Arrakis, with a wheel like turbine where the mouth is. The tether rope need to contain the conductor to bring the electricity down.

    Might need a helicopter to launch it after a lull.

    I believe the old method is to launch a (series of) smaller kite to pull the main kite up.
  • lstar337lstar337 Forumite
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    The problem with both nuclear and renewables is you only cover 40% of the problem. Most homes are heated with gas building more nuclear or wind turbines will have little effect on this.
    Really? Perhaps you could explain the logic behind that.

    Broken down into simple terms, I see it like this:

    More nuclear = less gas used for electricity generation = more gas for homes to use for heating.

    Wouldn't that have an effect on gas prices for home consumers?
  • Richie-from-the-BoroRichie-from-the-Boro Forumite
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    This is what councils back in the 60's and 70's thought as the queen smashed Champaign against nuclear power plants places like Hull & Leeds decided that all electric properties were the future! lol

    Alas with electricity between 3x x4 the price of gas that decision can now be called a big mistake.

    Gas is a clean fuel given it is a fossil fuel far cleaner than coal and we have 150yrs worth (estimated at current reserves). From 2016 no property built within the UK will have gas as we move to code 5 sustainable zero carbon builds, it will be interesting to see how the owners of these properties get on with future bills as currently ASHP & GSHP can leave you with a nasty bill if the back up is immersion.

    HiYa sheffield lad,

    The 2 problems with 5 & better still code 6 is cost. Current estimates are (1) about £40k extra for a code 5 new-build, and (2) considerably more for code 6. Most current new builds are not even fully code 3. Given we have a megga housing shortage particularly at the cheap end, have had and will have for decades, if we were to introduce code 5 that would mean a current £85,000 two bedder would cost £125,000. I'm not sure that developers would want to risk their capital on code 5 builds even if the mortgage industry was prepared to finance the retailing of them on a mortgage.

    Its a laudable idea, it at some point must start, but this green deal v2.0 by the back door - does not seem to be a runner in these economic times. The green deal v.1.0 was supposed to take care of the current housing stock and that sadly is dead in the water. So codes 5 and even 6 might happen for the wealthy who can afford the £60-80+k added to their expensive home, for the majority of us that's a rehearsal for a show that will never happen.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
  • sheffield_ladsheffield_lad Forumite
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    HiYa sheffield lad,

    Its a laudable idea, it at some point must start, but this green deal v2.0 by the back door - does not seem to be a runner in these economic times. The green deal v.1.0 was supposed to take care of the current housing stock and that sadly is dead in the water. So codes 5 and even 6 might happen for the wealthy who can afford the £60-80+k added to their expensive home, for the majority of us that's a rehearsal for a show that will never happen.

    but unless someone changes their minds it is going to happen

    Builders are concerned the UK's zero carbon homes standard will be further watered-down or scrapped all together, after the government once again delayed announcement on its energy efficiency building code.
    More than a year ago, the government revealed plans to require buildings to meet stricter energy efficiency standards during 2013 under the Part L building code, paving the way towards its stated goal of ensuring all new homes and commercial buildings meet "zero carbon" standards by 2016 and 2019 respectively.
  • Richie-from-the-BoroRichie-from-the-Boro Forumite
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    The Barratt's of this world won't speculate on the 'needed' cheap 1 or 2 bedder homes at £85k even with the GOV's 'NewBuy' scheme, adding 25% cost for PartL will certainly add heavy cargo to an already sinking ship. I agree with you that someone strong should just make PartL happen across the board no if's no buts, and I'll tell you why.

    New social or affordable housing is never going to happen in any meaningful way ever. If we are ever to get new social or affordable housing it will be after world war 3. Maggie sold 2 million homes under the 'right-to-buy' scheme most to labour voters, but she squandered the money instead of bulding more cheaper homes for young people to rent or buy. The current Tory intention unfettered by the LibDem's is like Thatchers era, to scrape every penny it can from anywhere it can. The building industry however unlike the utilities is not beholden to GOV for contracts and will bond only as many bricks as it can sell.

    So the industry will not build 'shared equity' or 'NewBuy' homes while the amount demanded by banks as a mortgage deposit is so high, they haven't built any small homes for decades, and they won't be starting now. Which leaves only the more expensive middle / top of the build market who can afford the insulation costs

    My kids are grown and flown, my grand and great grand-kids will be trapped in their parents home or costly private rented accommodation and in their 40's before they can own a home, if ever.
    Disclaimer : Everything I write on this forum is my opinion. I try to be an even-handed poster and accept that you at times may not agree with these opinions or how I choose to express them, this is not my problem. The Disabled : If years cannot be added to their lives, at least life can be added to their years - Alf Morris - ℜ
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