Indemnity claims

rav4boy

(Message deleted for legal reasons).

antrobus

The practical things you could do would be to;

1. Escalate your complaint against NatWest to the FOS
2. Take legal action against your ex to recover the £8k
3. Report the matter to the police as fraud

But I think your best bet would be to go and speak to a solicitor.

Wywth

rav4boy wrote: »

PLEASE HELP.

I had a joint account with my ex with Natwest, which we both paid into each month to cover direct debits for car insurance and loan repayments for our car. The payments were always made on time- as my ex partner's credit rating was so bad, the loan and car insurance was set up solely under my name.

We broke up last December, amicably, and I gave him a lump sum of money in exchange for keeping the car. As soon as my name was taken off the joint account in February, however, he began making indemnity claims for all the car insurance and loan repayments we had made together for the past 3 years. As these agreements were under my name, both companies are now chasing me for the incurred debt (£8k).

I wrote to complain to Natwest, including copies of incriminating text messages my partner had sent which proved he was well aware of the direct debit payments. Unfortunately, Natwest have simply shrugged their shoulders and said that my ex was entitled to do this.

Surely this is wrong, particularly since I still have the direct debit mandate with my name attached to it?? It seems as though Natwest have refused any culpability, even though they have clearly been negligent in looking at these requests for indemnity claims.

If what you say is correct (and I don't think many banks would refund monthly insurance premiums paid by DD from 3 years ago), then under the terms of the DD guarantee:

• If you receive a refund you are not entitled to, you must pay it back when the organisation asks you to

He received the money, as claims under the DD guarantee are credited to the bank account they were originally collected from, then he is required to pay it back on request.

Edit: The Originator(s) can also raise a counter claim via their Sponsor to recover the funds from the original bank account which were invalidly claimed by your ex. But they are not obliged to use this route - they can take alternative recovery action if they so wish

InsideInsurance

rav4boy wrote: »

Surely this is wrong, particularly since I still have the direct debit mandate with my name attached to it?? It seems as though Natwest have refused any culpability, even though they have clearly been negligent in looking at these requests for indemnity claims.

What have Natwest done wrong in your eyes?

The DD guarantee allows instant refunding of monies if the customer states the payments are in some way erroneous. It appears your ex has done this but obviously what he has said to the bank about the payments etc is covered by the data protection act as you are no longer named on that account you have no rights to it.

From antrobus' suggestions only option 2 is really viable. You dont have rights to complain to the FOS as you are not a customer on the account and the police are never interested in these types of things but state that its up to the financial institution to investigate if they feel there is a case to answer.

The real mistake was allowing him to keep the bank account.

pqrdef

Joint accounts are a menace.

dalesrider

InsideInsurance wrote: »

. You dont have rights to complain to the FOS as you are not a customer on the account and the police are never interested in these types of things but state that its up to the financial institution to investigate if they feel there is a case to answer.

The real mistake was allowing him to keep the bank account.

Not so sure that they could not complain as they have claimed back money from a period when it was a joint account.
Also these were payments to a account that was in the OP's name.

I'm also quite surprised that Natwest did 3 years. As 13 months is a limit imposed by FOS as a fair limit for any claim.
All I can think is that the other party has claimed fraud.

InsideInsurance

dalesrider wrote: »

Not so sure that they could not complain as they have claimed back money from a period when it was a joint account.
Also these were payments to a account that was in the OP's name.

I did wonder but I think the FOS would say they cannot assist as (1) the transaction occurred after the date of it converting to a sole named account and (2) a complaint would require the bank to disclose the reason given by the Ex for reversing the transactions and this would require their permission etc due to data protection

As to the fact the recipient account is owned by the OP I think is irrelevant. If you received a cheque that bounced when you tried to cash it and the issuer advised it was because their bank messed up you couldnt go to the FOS and complain that the cheque wasnt honoured.

rav4boy

Wywth wrote: »

If what you say is correct (and I don't think many banks would refund monthly insurance premiums paid by DD from 3 years ago), then under the terms of the DD guarantee:






He received the money, as claims under the DD guarantee are credited to the bank account they were originally collected from, then he is required to pay it back on request.

Edit: The Originator(s) can also raise a counter claim via their Sponsor to recover the funds from the original bank account which were invalidly claimed by your ex. But they are not obliged to use this route - they can take alternative recovery action if they so wish

Thank you!
Sad as it sounds, I have just received a statement from the insurance company and yes, Natwest have claimed back up to 3 years worth of payments. Despite writing to them, they simply will not accept that there is any wrong-doing.

rav4boy

InsideInsurance wrote: »

I did wonder but I think the FOS would say they cannot assist as (1) the transaction occurred after the date of it converting to a sole named account and (2) a complaint would require the bank to disclose the reason given by the Ex for reversing the transactions and this would require their permission etc due to data protection

As to the fact the recipient account is owned by the OP I think is irrelevant. If you received a cheque that bounced when you tried to cash it and the issuer advised it was because their bank messed up you couldnt go to the FOS and complain that the cheque wasnt honoured.

The DD payments were made during a 30 month period in which both our names were attached to the account, for financial agreements for which I still have the DD mandates on which my name is listed. Surely if Natwest were to authorise these indemnity claims for such a long period, which they did, then they should have investigated the claims more thoroughly? Had they the sense to do this, they would have seen that my name was attached to the account at the time, making the DD payments legitimate.

Wywth

rav4boy wrote: »

Thank you!
Sad as it sounds, I have just received a statement from the insurance company and yes, Natwest have claimed back up to 3 years worth of payments. Despite writing to them, they simply will not accept that there is any wrong-doing.

rav4boy wrote: »

The DD payments were made during a 30 month period in which both our names were attached to the account, for financial agreements for which I still have the DD mandates on which my name is listed. Surely if Natwest were to authorise these indemnity claims for such a long period, which they did, then they should have investigated the claims more thoroughly? Had they the sense to do this, they would have seen that my name was attached to the account at the time, making the DD payments legitimate.

The bank have to take the word of their customer in any claim made using the DD guarantee.

InsideInsurance

rav4boy wrote: »

The DD payments were made during a 30 month period in which both our names were attached to the account, for financial agreements for which I still have the DD mandates on which my name is listed. Surely if Natwest were to authorise these indemnity claims for such a long period, which they did, then they should have investigated the claims more thoroughly? Had they the sense to do this, they would have seen that my name was attached to the account at the time, making the DD payments legitimate.

But you are not complaining about the DD payments you are complaining about the DD Guarantee claims that were made after you were removed from the account.

Banks rarely bother investigating chargeback or DD guarantee claims because the money rarely comes out of their pocket.

Your name being attached to the account may or may not have made the payments legit, it all depends on what grounds your Ex disputed the transactions which evidently you dont know because its covered by the DPA. As a random example he may claim he cancelled the DD years ago and because natwest have lost/ destroyed the call recordings from that period they've given him the benefit of the doubt and reclaimed the money.

At the end of the day I can only express an opinion, the only way to find out for sure is to submit a complaint to Natwest and escalate it to the FOS. Just be aware that it can take years for the FOS to resolve complaints (mine is getting near its third anniversary now) and so it may be quicker/ better to go down the other route of approaching your ex directly