I need some urgent employment advice

Dimey

richard978 wrote: »

I'm sticking my guns and I will not be working with asbestos.

Wise move Richard.
I've seen a plumber live and die with asbestos in the lungs. Wickedly cruel.

SueC_2

richard978 wrote: »

What would happen i refuse to shave off my beard? Surely i have a right to own a beard.

With health and safety matters it's not quite that clear cut. If your employer has determined, through risk assessment, that your job, or elements of it, requires you to use PPE, then as the employee you have a legal obligation to comply. To be fully effective, face masks need to form a complete seal with your face, and therefore you do need to be clean shaven. If you refuse, your employer could (and indeed should) discipline you, and ultimately you could be prosecuted (although that would be fairly unlikely).

richard978 wrote: »

when it comes to my next exam which is in September I will purposely fail the exam.

Another high risk strategy that could lead to disciplinary issues on performance / capability grounds.

richard978 wrote: »

These companies want it all. They are a huge company and have ignored the problems of asbestos for years and now they want us to remove the bloody stuff. I simply refuse to work on any boiler that contains asbestos and they now want us to remove all the asbestos related products inside the boiler and replace them with non asbestos ones. Considering we are only allowed 30 mins to service a boiler what they are asking is simply not practicable. Plus I have no idea what the asbestos is in the boiler. The information i get from the HSE is simply the boiler contains asbestos asbestos or it does not.

You're contradicting yourself a bit there. If you have no idea what asbestos is in the boiler, are you not better off just wearing the mask as a precautionary measure?

richard978 wrote: »

They are going to get the middle finger in the morning, I'm not shaving and I'm going to refuse full stop.

That's absolutely your choice and right. And it is their choice and right to take disciplinary action as a consequence.

richard978 wrote: »

I'm sticking my guns and I will not be working with asbestos.

The unfortunate truth is that that is easier said than done. At work and outside of it, none of us can avoid asbestos. The more you find out about it, the more you realise that it has us surrounded.

Surely anything our employers do to try to protect us should be viewed as a positive?

Dimey

Sue C. -

Surely

"If you refuse, your employer could (and indeed should) discipline you, and ultimately you could be prosecuted (although that would be fairly unlikely)."

isn't the only course of action. As the OP has been working plumbing areas with no asbestos then the employer could just put him back to working non-asbestos areas.

If working asbestos is not currently in his contract then given the health and danger to life implications, refusing to work asbestos is not unreasonable.

If the employer is changing his business and only working asbestos areas in future then maybe there's a case for redundancy here?

ankspon

I used to do maintenance for the NHS,we had the same training and mask fitting but 2 painters had beards and got into a full blown argument over mask fitting as they had beards,they were thrown out of the mask fitting and never bothered again.They gave us this training after we had been working in plant rooms for years before they found out the asbestos removal company they hired were cowboys and they had not removed it all.I look forward to asbestosis in later life.

SueC_2

Dimey wrote: »

Sue C. -

Surely

"If you refuse, your employer could (and indeed should) discipline you, and ultimately you could be prosecuted (although that would be fairly unlikely)."

isn't the only course of action. As the OP has been working plumbing areas with no asbestos then the employer could just put him back to working non-asbestos areas.

If working asbestos is not currently in his contract then given the health and danger to life implications, refusing to work asbestos is not unreasonable.

If the employer is changing his business and only working asbestos areas in future then maybe there's a case for redundancy here?

No, it's not the only possible course of action, but it is a fact - if you refuse to wear PPE that your employer deems necessary in the course of your work, you can be disciplined.

It's not clear here what the employer's motivation is, but as I read it, it's not a case that the employee has previously been working in non-asbestos areas, but more that the employer is now acknowledging that boilers (which the employee has always worked on) could/do contain asbestos and that employees should be protected.

Imagine a situation in 30 years time, when the employee has been diagnosed with asbestosis and brings a case against the employer... "So, Mr Employer, 30 years ago in 2013 you acknowledged that the boilers your employees were working on could contain asbestos, yet you failed to do anything to protect your employees from the risk..."

As I said before, we are all exposed to asbestos in one form or another (toilet seats, paintwork, floor coverings to name but a few) and the chances of anyone working anywhere in the building trade being able to avoid coming into close contact with it are zero. From the details given above, this is comparatively low risk unlicenced work. Wear the mask and be grateful the employer cares enough to provide it!

richard978

SueC wrote: »

You're contradicting yourself a bit there. If you have no idea what asbestos is in the boiler, are you not better off just wearing the mask as a precautionary measure?

That's absolutely your choice and right. And it is their choice and right to take disciplinary action as a consequence.

The unfortunate truth is that that is easier said than done. At work and outside of it, none of us can avoid asbestos. The more you find out about it, the more you realise that it has us surrounded.

Surely anything our employers do to try to protect us should be viewed as a positive?

I'm not contradicting myself at all. I have a list of boilers and heaters that have be known to contain asbestos, this is provided by the HSE. The list doesn't distinguish between asbestos types or whether the contents are deemed licensed or unlicensed, it just warns me about asbestos. I am not qualified to make any other decision other than to stop work and walk away and do all the necessary paperwork.

On this basis if a boiler comes up on this list I don't work on it. It safe guards me, my apprentice and the customer. Unfortunately it does mean that the my company gets huge bill to remove the boiler and install a nice energy efficient one. Not my problem, my problem is how to work safely.

My original contract clearly states that it is gross misconduct if I breach the companies health and safety policies. The health and safety policies clearly state that I am not allowed to work on asbestos or transport asbestos waste. My waste carriers licence does not cover asbestos product and the lease company which provides the van again clearly states a ban on carrying hazardous material such as asbestos.

While I'm happy to wear a mask for general dust, which i do already in lofts and for coring out, I am not happy to be dealing with a class 1 carcinogen. I'm afraid my company is going to lose this one and I have already got my solicitor on the case.

Takeaway_Addict

so what happened today?

richard978

Takeaway_Addict wrote: »

so what happened today?

I didn't turn up at all, I'm just waiting for a response.

Takeaway_Addict

richard978 wrote: »

I didn't turn up at all, I'm just waiting for a response.

You didn't turn up for work at all? Really?

Did you tell them you weren't turning up?

SueC_2

richard978 wrote: »

I'm afraid my company is going to lose this one and I have already got my solicitor on the case.

I'd be interested to hear how the case progresses, please keep us updated.