Gold ETFs: diversification?

E.L.James

merlingrey wrote: »

I knew a lot from reading some basic economic stuff and following markets and making many mistakes just as a hobby and just to have savings on the side, my biggest education was losing half my cash chasing losses on bank shares without understanding what the hell was going on back in 2008.

When you lose money like that it hurts, but I dusted myself off and got over it but when that happens to you you want to know why, so you research.

For me the pin dropped when I watched this guy a couple of years back:



I think that is a different video but it matters not since his basic thesis does not change.

What I realised is that everything that has been happening is a symptom of resource depletion, but I advise watching the vid to get a rundown of why.

Could it be wrong, i wish it was but it just seems common sense, as I say the pin dropped.

Going to watch it later tonight when I have time. I like Chris Martenson I have seen him interviewed by Mike Maloney.

You have a good attitude. If its any consolation everyone lost money in 2008, everything went down. Silver went right down to £5 per ounce at the very bottom. I was buying before the bottom and right through and after, I am still buying today at £13oz. If anyone is interested I know how to buy 1oz silver rounds for £13 each total including postage no VAT. Well its gone up a little lately but that is about what I paid last order.

It is only VAT free into the UK from these people. And perfectly legal.

E.L.James

merlingrey wrote: »

Depends if you can get to it, scarcity is not the same as accessibility, the entire moon or the centre of the earth could be made of gold but it wouldn't affect price.

So someone can tell you there is more gold in the earth than you think but it's pointless if it costs a fortune to get to in energy/ money or impossible to get to.

No millions of tons of AVAILABLE gold bullion could be sold into the market at any time.

Yes you are right, silver is not scarce on Earth but AVAILABLE silver in industrial quantities by the ton is getting very rare. The market is now very tight and industrial users are relying on just in time inventory. Its now a hand to mouth supply demand situation. As soon as its mined it is chased after by silver users and investors who have been on waiting lists. Because all the silver stockpiles have now been depleted. Also silver is now under mining costs, so there is not much not incentive for miners.

E.L.James

My question is what has happened to all the gold through history? Gold lasts forever, if you dug up a 5000 year old gold coin it contains the same atoms as a recently minted gold piece. Is it possible that a large amount of it has been lost as we are led to believe? Yes its possible, but unlikely. There are constantly discoveries of lost treasure so if any hoards have been lost they are constantly being rediscovered, especially as treasure hunting tech gets more advanced. Just a few months ago in Jan 2013 another large 5.5KG gold nugget was found by a torrist. How much natural gold has been found or panned in the last 6000 years that has gone unreported that could be sold into the market at any time? There are many stories of someone finding a natural gold nugget but not reporting it and selling it on the black market. This has actually happened all around the world for thousands of years.
More likely than lots of gold has been lost is that it has been hidden away and this is why some claim there could be millions of tons of gold in play in the world. This would make the cube of gold much much bigger than the 22M-25M cube of gold that some claim.
The difference is that gold does not rust or corrode in any way. Silver does. It takes a long time, but silver first tarnishes then goes brittle then starts to degrade and it gets eaten away. If you discovered an ancient gold and silver hoard thousands of years old the gold would be no less amount of gold atoms than it was originally but the silver would be less. The silver would be brittle and not good for much else than put on display in a museum. It could not be restored to pass for modern bullion but the gold could easily be melted down and be sold into the market.

grey_gym_sock

it's all very well discussing whether a cube of gold or silver would hill half or a whole tennis court, but either way, it would ruin the game.

merlingrey

E.L.James wrote: »

My question is what has happened to all the gold through history? Gold lasts forever, if you dug up a 5000 year old gold coin it contains the same atoms as a recently minted gold piece. Is it possible that a large amount of it has been lost as we are led to believe? Yes its possible, but unlikely. There are constantly discoveries of lost treasure so if any hoards have been lost they are constantly being rediscovered, especially as treasure hunting tech gets more advanced. Just a few months ago in Jan 2013 another large 5.5KG gold nugget was found by a torrist. How much natural gold has been found or panned in the last 6000 years that has gone unreported that could be sold into the market at any time? There are many stories of someone finding a natural gold nugget but not reporting it and selling it on the black market. This has actually happened all around the world for thousands of years.
More likely than lots of gold has been lost is that it has been hidden away and this is why some claim there could be millions of tons of gold in play in the world. This would make the cube of gold much much bigger than the 22M-25M cube of gold that some claim.
The difference is that gold does not rust or corrode in any way. Silver does. It takes a long time, but silver first tarnishes then goes brittle then starts to degrade and it gets eaten away. If you discovered an ancient gold and silver hoard thousands of years old the gold would be no less amount of gold atoms than it was originally but the silver would be less. The silver would be brittle and not good for much else than put on display in a museum. It could not be restored to pass for modern bullion but the gold could easily be melted down and be sold into the market.

No idea, perhaps a load of pirates buried it all over the place and we've lost the maps lol j/k

Maybe there is more but gold in history was actually a bad money and silver was good because there was plenty of silver and not enough gold in a rising population, gold standards often came about because more was found.

So in theory if you was right silver would become like gold used to be and gold would again be good as a money.

Remember that Isaac Newton didnt like gold he wanted to manipulate the price down to make people use silver, but unfortunately there was a gold rush creating a gold standard.

merlingrey

E.L.James wrote: »

Going to watch it later tonight when I have time. I like Chris Martenson I have seen him interviewed by Mike Maloney.

You have a good attitude. If its any consolation everyone lost money in 2008, everything went down. Silver went right down to £5 per ounce at the very bottom. I was buying before the bottom and right through and after, I am still buying today at £13oz. If anyone is interested I know how to buy 1oz silver rounds for £13 each total including postage no VAT. Well its gone up a little lately but that is about what I paid last order.

It is only VAT free into the UK from these people. And perfectly legal.

That could be classed as customs and excise fraud, no matter what they say if you got pulled up at magistrates they would just go " did you pay VAT?"

You "no"

Judge "guilty"

Done, I'd check any small print and clauses before ordering from them folks.

Ark_Welder

E.L.James wrote: »

if you dug up a 5000 year old gold coin it contains the same atoms as a recently minted gold piece.

No, they do not contain the same atoms, they contain different atoms. If they contained the same atoms then they would be the same gold coin.

However, they may contain different atoms of the same element.

Unless, of course, anyone is able to prove the formulae that we are all made of the same piece of string that occupies a single point in the interdimensional wotsit.

merlingrey

Ark_Welder wrote: »

No, they do not contain the same atoms, they contain different atoms. If they contained the same atoms then they would be the same gold coin.

However, they may contain different atoms of the same element.

Unless, of course, anyone is able to prove the formulae that we are all made of the same piece of string that occupies a single point in the interdimensional wotsit.

How did we go from exchange traded funds to quantum physics?

Amazing.

Ark_Welder

merlingrey wrote: »

How did we go from exchange traded funds to quantum physics?

Amazing.

It's them thar synthetic ETFs, innit.

E.L.James

merlingrey wrote: »

That could be classed as customs and excise fraud, no matter what they say if you got pulled up at magistrates they would just go " did you pay VAT?"

You "no"

Judge "guilty"

Done, I'd check any small print and clauses before ordering from them folks.

Actually there is a loophole to get it inside UK boarders and you do pay VAT but its 0%