APCOA Luton Airport

midsummer100

Hello everyone

So this is very confusing isn't it?

I have received the Parking charge notice from APCOA for 02-Dropping off/Picking up outside of designated parking area.
The date of this alleged contravention is 25th June 2013 and the letter is dated 11th July 2013. I left to get married on the evening of 12th July and it hadn't been delivered by then, so was delivered at least 17 days after the alleged contravention.

My confusion is
1) Why can't I just ignore this? It is an illegal (fraudulent) invoice/letter which is not for parking and breaks the law with its dates and wording.
2) Is it due to the new legislation from October 2012 that I can't just ignore it? - If so, very poor legislation as it means the person who is the victim of the illegal activity is the one being put to more hassle. (ie in this instance me - I now have to engage in letter writing that I can ill-afford the time to do and which could potentially lead me to have to engage with these scammers - again which I can ill-afford the time to do. Timewise it's cheaper for me to simply pay the requested amount and be done with it than take up more of my time - although that does not solve the problem for anyone long-term.)
3) Why are the DVLA allowed to give out my information to companies that are acting illegally? Surely if that was stopped the Private Parking Companies would have no business as they would have no way of contacting people?
4) Why doesn't Companies House shut them down for acting illegally?
5) Why aren't there police prosecutions for the scare-mongering, the fraud and the blatant preying on innocent people's insecurities?
6) Why do Luton Airport have a contract with these illegal companies - it just makes us want to use different airports.
7) Can the MSE guide to Private Parking notices have a section that deals with this (ie the dropping off/picking up/getting a letter through the post and not a ticket on your car) in plain English and the letters in template form as there are many different templates online which are all different from each other and yet vaguely similar. It's very difficult to tell which ones to use and very very confusing.

Please can some one advise me if I can simply ignore - as I have done in the past with similar illegal invoices/fishing letters? (unrelated to parking). Or whether I have to engage with these illegal companies?

Many thanks in advance to anyone who can help to clarify this for me.

Midsummer100

bazster

midsummer100 wrote: »

Hello everyone

So this is very confusing isn't it?

I have received the Parking charge notice from APCOA for 02-Dropping off/Picking up outside of designated parking area.
The date of this alleged contravention is 25th June 2013 and the letter is dated 11th July 2013. I left to get married on the evening of 12th July and it hadn't been delivered by then, so was delivered at least 17 days after the alleged contravention.

My confusion is
1) Why can't I just ignore this? It is an illegal (fraudulent) invoice/letter which is not for parking and breaks the law with its dates and wording.
You probably could ignore it, I'm not aware that APCOA is in the habit of filing court cases (yet; this might change if ParkingEye is "successful" with it's current bulk filing of court cases experiment). Bear in mind that APCOA has 6 years to decide whether to issue court proceedings, and you could kill this off now with an appeal.
2) Is it due to the new legislation from October 2012 that I can't just ignore it? - If so, very poor legislation as it means the person who is the victim of the illegal activity is the one being put to more hassle. (ie in this instance me - I now have to engage in letter writing that I can ill-afford the time to do and which could potentially lead me to have to engage with these scammers - again which I can ill-afford the time to do. Timewise it's cheaper for me to simply pay the requested amount and be done with it than take up more of my time - although that does not solve the problem for anyone long-term.)It is sort-of due to the new legislation; previously APCOA would've needed to know who was driving, now they believe they can pursue the registered keeper (they are 100% wrong, but that's what they believe).
3) Why are the DVLA allowed to give out my information to companies that are acting illegally? Surely if that was stopped the Private Parking Companies would have no business as they would have no way of contacting people? THe DVLA doesn't give the information, it sells it. There's your answer. If you think that's wrong (and we would all agree with you) complain to DVLA, ICO and your MP.
4) Why doesn't Companies House shut them down for acting illegally? Not sure they are acting illegally, but feel free to complain to the Office of Fair Trading about them!
5) Why aren't there police prosecutions for the scare-mongering, the fraud and the blatant preying on innocent people's insecurities? Ask the police
6) Why do Luton Airport have a contract with these illegal companies - it just makes us want to use different airports. Ask Luton Airport
7) Can the MSE guide to Private Parking notices have a section that deals with this (ie the dropping off/picking up/getting a letter through the post and not a ticket on your car) in plain English and the letters in template form as there are many different templates online which are all different from each other and yet vaguely similar. It's very difficult to tell which ones to use and very very confusing. Ask MSE

Please can some one advise me if I can simply ignore - as I have done in the past with similar illegal invoices/fishing letters? (unrelated to parking). Or whether I have to engage with these illegal companies?

Many thanks in advance to anyone who can help to clarify this for me.

Midsummer100

APCOA are screwed on numerous grounds.

(i) They didn't get the notice to you on time; to be valid a Notice to Keeper has to be issued within 14 days. Never mind when you actually received it, their own dates show that they didn't even send it until after 14 days!

(ii) You never parked. The new law refers specifically to parking. Stopping to allow a passenger to board/alight is not parking.

(iii) Chances are that there are byelaws governing the airport roads. The new law doesn't apply to roads subject to statutory control.

And various other points.

Your choices now are to ignore it, or to send a dumb, soft appeal to APCOA and then kill them at PoPLA. Doesn't matter what your soft appeal to APCOA says, appeal on any daft grounds, but crucially do not admit to being the driver. Appeal solely as the registered keeper. They'll reject it and send you a PoPLA code, and the good stuff goes in the PoPLA appeal.

As for your wider rant about the behaviour of these companies, we all agree with you, but we can't fix it. If you really want to make your feelings felt you need to moan to DVLA, ICO, Trading Standards, OfT, DfT and your MP.

The_Slithy_Tove

What bazster is saying here:

bazster wrote: »

(i) They didn't get the notice to you on time; to be valid a Notice to Keeper has to be issued within 14 days. Never mind when you actually received it, their own dates show that they didn't even send it until after 14 days!

(ii) You never parked. The new law refers specifically to parking. Stopping to allow a passenger to board/alight is not parking.

(iii) Chances are that there are byelaws governing the airport roads. The new law doesn't apply to roads subject to statutory control.

is that all these points mean they have not met the requirements to use the Protection of Freedoms Act (the legislation referred to), so point (2) is moot.

This means they only have recourse to the driver. Unless you tell them, they don't know who that is.

bazster

In what way is it "moot"? Do you think someone could argue that stopping and parking are the same thing? The law as it applies to the public highway certainly doesn't see it that way.

The_Slithy_Tove

Just I be clear, I was referring to your Point 2 in your first post, not bazster's point (ii).

It is "moot" in that PoFA makes no difference in this case, as it cannot be applied. It is still perfectly valid to challenge APCOA that you were not parked, so they cannot call their scrappy piece of paper a Parking Charge. Get them to call a spade a spade (i.e. au unenforceable penalty for breach of an alleged contract that the driver never even entered into).

nigelbb

APCOA won't be interested in enforcing bylaws as there is no money in it for them if a motorist gets fined in the magistrates court.

midsummer100

Thank you for the replies, but I think the thing is you are all so into it that its really confusing to the average person!

So basically I can ignore them and eventually they will go away as there's nothing in the law that means I have to pay if I don't either pay or appeal?

Or I can write 6 letters and get the same result?

bazster

The_Slithy_Tove wrote: »

Just I be clear, I was referring to your Point 2 in your first post, not bazster's point (ii).

It is "moot" in that PoFA makes no difference in this case, as it cannot be applied. It is still perfectly valid to challenge APCOA that you were not parked, so they cannot call their scrappy piece of paper a Parking Charge. Get them to call a spade a spade (i.e. au unenforceable penalty for breach of an alleged contract that the driver never even entered into).

OK, a misunderstanding, I apologise. I was making a similar point when I said that APCOA think they can hold the keeper liable but they are 100% wrong.

bazster

midsummer100 wrote: »

Thank you for the replies, but I think the thing is you are all so into it that its really confusing to the average person!

So basically I can ignore them and eventually they will go away as there's nothing in the law that means I have to pay if I don't either pay or appeal?

Or I can write 6 letters and get the same result?

They will most likely go away, but don't come complaining to us if court papers land on your doormat in 5 years 11 months! No guarantees, and we don't know if the previously-supine APCOA will start following the path being trodden by ParkingEye! If you did ever get court papers then you would very likely win as APCOA are so far out of line they are in the next county, but again no guarantees, and defending a court claim would take a lot more writing than killing it now!

Coupon-mad

midsummer100 wrote: »

Thank you for the replies, but I think the thing is you are all so into it that its really confusing to the average person!

So basically I can ignore them and eventually they will go away as there's nothing in the law that means I have to pay if I don't either pay or appeal?

Or I can write 6 letters and get the same result?

Why would you ignore it and put up with all the scary debt collector letters for a year or more? For up to SIX YEARS a firm can take a person to small claims court - it's rare BUT you might always be wondering if APCOA - who are a pretty large and rich PPC - are ever going to follow Parking Eye's lead and start sudden court claims against 'ignorers' like yourself? People thought they could ignore PE a few months ago and are now defending court claims!

Compare that scenario with just TWO simple (post or email) stages of appeal, where if you follow our template advice it will be cancelled at APCOA's own expense. And we can give you template appeals to send for each stage, here's 'stage one', a strong challenge to APCOA I wrote for someone re the same scam, also at Luton:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4685369

Base your challenge on post #4. You would simply need to change a detail or two if stuff like ''the car was stationary for a few seconds, purely in order for the driver and passenger to look at the nearest sign'' isn't the case for you. And of course remove the paragraphs about disability and the Equality Act 2010 if not applicable to you nor a passenger. You'd still have a nice strong appeal and you will win if APCOA let it go to POPLA, if you follow our advice, because they have no case against you as registered keeper due to this being Airport Land and because they send the Notice too late.

DO NOT NAME NOR IMPLY WHO WAS DRIVING IF YOU MAKE CHANGES. I expect APCOA will drop cases where people send this sort of appeal - but if not, please do tell us when you get your rejection letter and POPLA code. It's easy and we can then show you strong POPLA appeal wording, to win.

And congrats on your marriage!!!

write2msk

Hi everyone,

This is my first Post. I am in a similar situation to the above. I sent APCOA the following appeal letter based on info gathered from MSE see below:

APCOA PARKING

Date: XXXXX

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing to you regarding the Parking Charge Notice with Ref. No. XXXXX, dated 21/05/2013 for Vehicle Reg: XXXX, your charge is punitive and unenforceable. I deny all liability to your company. I require you to cancel the charge forthwith or provide me within 35 days a POPLA verification code so that I can appeal independently, per the BPA code of practice.

I have nothing further to add, and will not respond to any correspondence from your company, unless it contains the POPLA code.

Yours Sincerely,


XXXXXXXX
(Registered Keeper of XXXXXX)




APCOA have now rejected this appeal and sent me some photos of my car along with the POPLA code.


Note that the contravention occured on 24th April 2013, so this exceeds the 14 days response period.



I would be very greatful if someone could help with the next stage POPLA appeal. Thanks. please PM if required