Excel Parking Notice

Ric02k13

Hi,
I got a PCN from excel for parking without a valid ticket as i was under the impression that the site was free for 45 mins and didn't know i still had to display a ticket.
After reading several threads on here i sent this appeal off via email:

Dear Sir/Madam


I refer to your Contractual Parking Charge Notice number: ********** Dated: 07/06/2013

I am unable to confirm at this stage if I was the driver of the vehicle at the date shown. I cannot think of any action of mine that may have contributed to the alleged contractual contravention and cannot remember entering into any parking contract with you. As such I am denying all liability to your company.


I am therefore unable to make an informed appeal against the circumstances since I am unsure if it was me that agreed any contract with you, although I certainly don't recall doing so. I am unwilling to make any payment on notification from a company I do not know, for an amount I cannot remember agreeing to, on a contract I didn't have any knowledge of.

I will not make payment for any speculative demand without proof of the existence of any supposed contract between us, and your legal right to make such a contract with me in the first place. If you would kindly send details as follows I will then be able to properly consider this matter fully and my own liability for any alleged contractual breach:

Proof of your right to make a contract with a driver using the said car park facility. This to be in the form of landowner rights such as a copy of the land deeds, any contract with the landowner giving you the right of occupation of the land rather than a right of access for monitoring the said area, or a lease agreement for the land in question.

A copy of the contract between yourself and the landlord showing your responsibilities in monitoring the car park on their behalf, and your right to pursue any matter to legal proceedings if no payment is forthcoming.

A copy of any contract that you allege exists between yourself or landowner client and me; such contract to be shown to have been properly offered and then accepted by me or any other driver who may have been involved in this matter.

The reasoning of the alleged contravention. Please advise as to whether this alleged offence was supposedly for a Breach of a Contractual Parking arrangement or for Trespass. If no contractual agreement was made or accepted by either party, then an explanation as to why you consider trespass was committed in an area where there is free access by the landowner to members of the public.

In the unlikely event that you do have full rights to make contracts with individual drivers, either on behalf of the landowner, or at your own behest due to some contractual arrangement with your client, then I need a breakdown of what charges have been made in connection with the alleged contravention or trespass and how they have been calculated in accordance with the necessity to make a charge for a known financial loss to the landowner.
I am aware of the legal aspects of the monitoring of such premises and am keen to avoid any doubt as to whether or not you have a legal right to demand payment, and whether I am equally liable to make that payment as demanded.

I am also aware of the existence of various cases in courts which have shown that the vast majority of such demands are made by companies who have no authority to make them in the first place, so I need to remove that doubt in this case to progress it any further.

Failure to provide the information requested in support of your claim will mean that I will not consider this particular charge to have any merit and will therefore refuse payment accordingly. It may also carry the consequence of a complaint being made for harassment if demands continue in any form if you do not send me the information requested.

Furthermore, should you reject this challenge I require within 35 days, a popla verification code in order to appeal independently, per Version 2 of the BPA Code of Practice. I will not respond to any further correspondence from your company if it fails to include the relevant and correct popla code. This appeal will be deemed accepted if there is no popla code on any rejection that you supply within the time frame stipulated above.

Yours faithfully....

Following this email i have recieved a letter today reading:



Further to your recent correspondence recieved on the 24th june 2013 in connection with the above referenced PCN

Please note the liability for this PCN lies with the driver of the vehicle at the time of parking contravention was observed. It is, however not made clear within your reply that you were the driver of the vehicle on the day in question and therefore we are at present unable to process your representations for this reason.

The following options are available:
1. confirm to us in writing that you were the driver of the vehicle on the day in question.

2. Notify the driver of the vehicle that they will need to appeal to us directly.

3. Pay the PCN. Payments can be made online at ^^^^^^ by following the links for PCN Payment, or over the phone by using a credit or debit card. Alternatively you can pay by cheque or postal order through the post.


As a gesture of good-will we have placed the case file on hold for an additional 14 days to enable the above mentioned actions to be administered. If we recieve either no payment or further communication by the 24th July 2013, the right to appeal may be lost.

Please be aware that if you fail to provide a valid name and address, we will revert to the registered keep for recovery of the Notice in accordance with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012

I would really appreciate any advice as i dont know where to go from here. Thanks in advance

Coupon-mad

The bit in bold in your post is irrelevant really except that you can report their shenanigans. This is the game that Excel play and everyone who gets that letter should complain to the DVLA and BPA that Excel are pretending YET AGAIN that the registered keeper can't appeal and are not giving POPLA codes.

- email a specific complaint about this letter to: [EMAIL="FOI@dvla.gsi.gov.uk"]FOI@dvla.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]

- and also go the the BPA website and use the link 'complain about an AOS member'.

Here are some threads about Excel where I suggested that in a first appeal they mention this standard letter pretending that the driver has to be named and warning Excel they'll be reported if they don't send a POPLA code sharpish, so you can adapt this.

Shame you didn't see these threads before as I could have told you that you'd get this rubbish from Excel otherwise and were always going to have to write again for your POPLA code:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62365955#Comment_62365955

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62459153#Comment_62459153

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62359721#Comment_62359721

The gist should have been in your first appeal:

''This is my appeal as the registered keeper in response to your letter. I do not have to name the driver so don't waste your time and mine with a non-compliant letter pretending I must name the driver. Cut out the tricks and send me a POPLA code or cancel this fake PCN because your signs in the car park are as bad as they were when you lost in Court against Martin Cutts.''

So now you just have to write again and be insistent that as keeper you can appeal and MUST be given your POPLA code. You can use the words above if you like, or write your own but NOT implying who was driving, always write as the keeper, referring to the incident and the driver in the third person.

Ric02k13

Hi this is a follow up from the previous post.
I did as mentioned above and thought all was well as i haven't heard anything back from Excel until today.
15 weeks later i recieved a Liability notice through the post today with an issue date of 02/10/2013. I never accepted liability in previous responses
Again the general gist of the letter is to pay £100 and that i haven't responded to the previous PCN letter even though i have emailed appeals twice now already asking for a POPLA code.
Any advice would be appreciated as i feel they this will never go away.
Thanks for your time

Guys_Dad

Dear sirs,

Ref etc xxxxxxxxxxx

I appealed to you on dd/mm/yy seeking either a cancellation or POPLA code. I gave you my reasons for my appeal.

You have provided neither.

I refer you to the following sections from your own BPA Code of Practice. I require you to follow these forthwith.

22.4 If a driver or keeper challenges a parking charge you must
review the case and decide whether to:
• uphold the parking charge and explain why it was
issued and should therefore be paid, or
• reduce or cancel the charge and take no further
management action other than informing the driver.
22.6 When you receive a challenge about the issue of a
parking charge, you must stop work on processing the
charge immediately. You must not increase the charge
until you have replied to the challeng

POPLA (Parking On Private Land Appeals)
22.14 Drivers and keepers may appeal against a parking charge
to POPLA.
22.15 POPLA operates under its own code of practice which
includes:
• its remit and jurisdiction
• the processes for lodging and defending an appeal
• the timetable for the appeals processes
• the grounds for appeal
• the burden and standard of proof required by the
parties to the appeal
• the degree to which both parties are bound by its
decisions
• details of its annual report.
22.16 You must keep to the processes and other requirements of
POPLA, as set out in their Code of Practice and elsewhere

Should you fail to follow the above procedures, then be assured that the BPA, DVLA POPLA and Trading Standards will all be informed, as will any court that you are foolish enough to seek to pursue this with.

Yours faithfully,


Keeper

Ric02k13

Thanks so much for your speedy response.
Will send later on today
Thanks

Coupon-mad

And don't wait to see how they reply, complain about them anyway to this Operations Manager at the BPA:

[EMAIL="david.m@britishparking.co.uk"]david.m@britishparking.co.uk[/EMAIL]

Send him a copy of all the Excel letters and your appeal that they ignored and point out they have never given you a POPLA code. Complain!

Ric02k13

Ok so i thought it was all over until i got home today and recieved another letter from Excel with a POPLA verification code. These guys are giving me heart pains!
Im unsure where to go from here. Ive been reading up on the POPLA decisions and would really appreciate advice on the best course of action from here. The letter states that a PCN will be issued for failure to purchase a valid ticket within the 30 minute free period. £100 for a 17 minute overstay seems unreal!

In my first appeal sent to Excel on the 24/06/2013 i asked for a POPLA code to be issued within the 35 days as stated in per Version 2 of the BPA Code of Practice. Obviously the 35 days has long come and gone. Would this help my appeal?

Thanks for any advice

Coupon-mad

You are on the home straight now! Read the 'how to win at POPLA' advice in the first links and look at the example winning POPLA appeals in the second list of links here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/62180281#Comment_62180281

Show us your draft if unsure. You need the paragraphs we show you there.

BullTerrierFan

I've just successfully appealed via poplar with the help from the good people on this forum, If I can manage it pretty much anybody can.

Ric02k13

Thanks for the quick responses and the mega helpful links. Im doing the research and understand the necessary paragraphs ect but im struggling to state the initial cause for commiting the so called offense. The signage was unclear as i read free 45 when after relalisation was 30 minute stay and no return 1 hour which i didnt understand. The truth is that i was stuck in a long Q in blockbuster and didnt time the visit. Do i include this is the POPLA appeal or state the main causes for appeal The charge is a penalty and not a genuine pre-estimate of loss/. The annoying thing is i was there two days before and pucrchased a 2 hour ticket!

getting most of appeal sorted just the main error in judgement reason for appeal. Do i even need to include one or should i stick with the signage was unclear initially

Thanks again

Coupon-mad

No you just start 'I am the registered keeper and I am appealing this fake PCN because I am not liable..'

You do not mention any error in judgement on the driver's part whatsoever.

You write only as the KEEPER.

You must include the winning appeal points like 'no legal standing/contract with landowner... and no genuine pre-estimate of loss' as you will see on the example links. And cite unclear signage and ANPR unreliability, and that Excel failed to give you a POPLA code and tried to insist on knowing who was driving when this is a breach of the BPA CoP - as confirmed in the latest POPLA newsletter, a PPC has to include a clear POPLA code with the rejection letter.

I suggest you show us your draft in case you've missed any winning points or have accidentally implied who was driving (don't mention the parking event!!).

Was this the Peel Centre or another car park?