Is this legal?

ochiba

Bought two Thomas Kent Cotswold model clocks in fern from two different online retailers; one from John Lewis on 27th June 2013 and the other from Grace&Glory Homes on 10th July 2013. Same brand, same model name and colour, same product description, same original retail price and both clocks supplied by same manufacturer.

Clock bought from John Lewis has Thomas Kent registered trade mark imprinted in the rim on the back of the clock. Clock bought from Grace&Glory Homes does not have Thomas Kent registered trade mark.

The clocks bear only a passing resemblance to each other, eg clock face numerals are different sizes, colours, shapes and finish qualities; the hands are different colours, shapes and lengths; the clocks have different back designs, wall mountings and clock mechanisms, the "Thomas Kent" brand names and "Greenwich" model names imprinted on the clock faces are different fonts and sizes.

Overall the clock I bought from John Lewis is of a far superior quality and finish.

Was concern that clock bought from Grace&Glory Homes was fake so contacted the Thomas Kent clock manufacturer and Grace&Glory Homes. Grace&Glory Homes stated that it is a genuine Thomas Kent clock and the Thomas Kent clock manufacturer's regional sales manager told me (without seeing the photos) that the clock from Grace&Glory Homes is a genuine Thomas Kent clock. She explained that they use multiple manufacturers to produce the same model of clock to different quality standards and the design does vary.

So my question is - Is it legal to sell these two clocks as the same brand, model, standard, quality and price if they are not the exact same design and quality?

(As a newbie I'm not allowed to post links of the photos of the clocks.)

[Deleted User]

Just a thought - was one of the clocks a newer model that superceeded the other one? Not sure if they would have identical model numbers if that was the case ...

System

Each retailer is entitled to sell the items at whatever price they wish. As the manufacturer says they have multiple producers who make them to different standards and quality but it is up to the retailer how they take this into account.

lincroft1710

They can certainly be sold for the same price.

ochiba

Hmm, but why would one clock have the Thomas Kent registered trade mark on it while the other (possibly older version) does not?

I didn't want to waffle on in my original post but when I contacted the manufacturer's head office I was told that they have only ever produce one design of the Thomas Kent Cotswold model clock. However their regional sales manager later contradicted them and said that different versions had been produced.

Valli

The design may have been the same but using two different manufacturers the clocks may only be 'similar'.
As long as each retailer has correctly represented the clock they sell no law has been broken.

wealdroam

ochiba wrote: »

Hmm, but why would one clock have the Thomas Kent registered trade mark on it while the other (possibly older version) does not?

You answered that earlier yourself when you said:

ochiba wrote: »

Grace&Glory Homes stated that it is a genuine Thomas Kent clock and the Thomas Kent clock manufacturer's regional sales manager told me (without seeing the photos) that the clock from Grace&Glory Homes is a genuine Thomas Kent clock. She explained that they use multiple manufacturers to produce the same model of clock to different quality standards and the design does vary.

The sentence you have underlined is significant.

ochiba wrote: »

I didn't want to waffle on in my original post but when I contacted the manufacturer's head office I was told that they have only ever produce one design of the Thomas Kent Cotswold model clock. However their regional sales manager later contradicted them and said that different versions had been produced.

And as you have the evidence to prove it, clearly the HO person either made a mistake or told an untruth.

Either way, I am still not sure where you expect to go with this?

browneyedbazzi

Were there images of the clock on the Grace and Glory website? If so, does the clock you received look like the image you saw online?

Having the same model produced different places and to different standards isn't very good practice (because inconsistent quality can damage the reputation of your brand) but it isn't illegal. The only problem would be if the Grace and Glory website shows images of the superior clock (in enough detail that you could see the details you mentioned) but what they send out is the inferior version.

ochiba

browneyedbazzi wrote: »

Were there images of the clock on the Grace and Glory website? If so, does the clock you received look like the image you saw online?

Yes, the clock I received does look like the image on the website. The image was a bit fuzzy and clicking on the enlarge option didn't show the clock in any great detail. It did not show the defects and imperfections that the retailer is saying are the usual Thomas Kent brand's high quality of finish and appearance. But that's a whole other issue (Sale of Goods Act).

browneyedbazzi wrote: »

Having the same model produced different places and to different standards isn't very good practice (because inconsistent quality can damage the reputation of your brand) but it isn't illegal. The only problem would be if the Grace and Glory website shows images of the superior clock (in enough detail that you could see the details you mentioned) but what they send out is the inferior version.

Thanks for your post, that has answered my question.

Techhead_2

Isn't Thomas Kent just a brand name used by a marketing company for a range of OEM clocks?

(A bit like Hitachi TVs/Recorders, not made by Hitachi but a name put on an import product by Argos)

As such one would expect there to be a variation in quality.

ochiba

Update ... I was preparing some paperwork for my Sale of Goods Act 1979 claim against Grace&Glory Homes, and actually compared the photos I had taken of both clocks against the screen print of Grace&Glory Homes website image of the clock. Should have done this in the first place!

The Grace&Glory Homes website images for the clock are very fuzzy but the numeral "1"'s on the clock face of the website images are definitely not the same as the numeral "1"'s on the clock I received from them.

The Grace&Glory Homes website shows the same images (albeit) very fuzzy of the SAME version of the model of clock shown on the John Lewis website, ie the newest, revamped version of this model of clock that is produced to a superior quality and finish.

Can you give me an update on how this affects my consumer rights and - back to my original question - is this legal?